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How long, until it becomes illegal to come up with these feel-good mood-affiliation "reports" that paint Plug-In Hybrids (i.e. combustion-engines equipped with

How long, until it becomes illegal to come up with these feel-good mood-affiliation "reports" that paint Plug-In Hybrids (i.e. combustion-engines equipped with a supportive battery) as Electric Vehicles?

rsynnott 2y ago
Many of those plugins will almost never use their combustion engine. Particularly in western Europe where most of these are selling, the average person doesn’t drive far enough per day to exhaust the battery. So it’s not just feel-good, it’s a real impact. That said, I don’t think that’s what this report is doing?
- rcMgD2BwE72F 2y ago
  This contradicts your assertion: https://www.transportenvironment.org/articles/plug-hybrids-new-emissions-scandal-tests-show-higher-pollution-claimed https://www.transportenvironment.org/articles/plug-hybrids-n...
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    Those are massive SUV-type things with apparently rather weak engines (ie almost light hybrids, but with a plug); the typical plugin hybrid is a fair bit smaller. And has a bigger battery; the Mitsubishi Outlander mentioned had a 12kWh battery, vs, say, a plug-in Prius, a much smaller car with a 14kWh battery, Many plugin hybrids only need to use their petrol engine when they actually run out of power. I would wonder if whoever came up with the above study was deliberately looking for a worst case scenario, tbh; they didn't include any small/normal-sized cars at all (everything they mention is over two tonnes), even though the _average_/most typical plugin hybrid car is probably some sort of smallish hatchback. (Even then, though, I'm curious what conditions they're testing under. I know someone who has a BMW 5-series plugin hybrid saloon, which is a close relative of the X5 mentioned, albeit a bit lighter and more aerodynamic, and it operates pretty much entirely on battery when charged.)
  - itishappy 2y ago
    Somewhat. They're still significantly more efficient than ICE vehicles. Regenerative braking adds 10-25% efficiency on it's own. The study behind your article has this to say on the issue: > The share of kilometers that PHEVs electrify results in a total of 15%–55% less tailpipe CO2 emissions compared to conventional cars. This is much lower than expected from type-approval values. So certainly worse than indicated, but still better than alternatives. https://theicct.org/publication/real-world-usage-of-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles-fuel-consumption-electric-driving-and-co2-emissions/ https://theicct.org/publication/real-world-usage-of-plug-in-...

rsynnott 2y ago

Many of those plugins will almost never use their combustion engine. Particularly in western Europe where most of these are selling, the average person doesn’t drive far enough per day to exhaust the battery. So it’s not just feel-good, it’s a real impact. That said, I don’t think that’s what this report is doing?

rcMgD2BwE72F 2y ago
This contradicts your assertion: https://www.transportenvironment.org/articles/plug-hybrids-new-emissions-scandal-tests-show-higher-pollution-claimed https://www.transportenvironment.org/articles/plug-hybrids-n...
- rsynnott 2y ago
  Those are massive SUV-type things with apparently rather weak engines (ie almost light hybrids, but with a plug); the typical plugin hybrid is a fair bit smaller. And has a bigger battery; the Mitsubishi Outlander mentioned had a 12kWh battery, vs, say, a plug-in Prius, a much smaller car with a 14kWh battery, Many plugin hybrids only need to use their petrol engine when they actually run out of power. I would wonder if whoever came up with the above study was deliberately looking for a worst case scenario, tbh; they didn't include any small/normal-sized cars at all (everything they mention is over two tonnes), even though the _average_/most typical plugin hybrid car is probably some sort of smallish hatchback. (Even then, though, I'm curious what conditions they're testing under. I know someone who has a BMW 5-series plugin hybrid saloon, which is a close relative of the X5 mentioned, albeit a bit lighter and more aerodynamic, and it operates pretty much entirely on battery when charged.)
- itishappy 2y ago
  Somewhat. They're still significantly more efficient than ICE vehicles. Regenerative braking adds 10-25% efficiency on it's own. The study behind your article has this to say on the issue: > The share of kilometers that PHEVs electrify results in a total of 15%–55% less tailpipe CO2 emissions compared to conventional cars. This is much lower than expected from type-approval values. So certainly worse than indicated, but still better than alternatives. https://theicct.org/publication/real-world-usage-of-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles-fuel-consumption-electric-driving-and-co2-emissions/ https://theicct.org/publication/real-world-usage-of-plug-in-...