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> Postwar Britain had been swept up by the theory that nationalization created economies of scale that gave citizens better outcomes than pure capitalism. “Ther

> Postwar Britain had been swept up by the theory that nationalization created economies of scale that gave citizens better outcomes than pure capitalism. “There was an idea that if we could rationalize the planning system … then we could build things in the right way—considered, and planned, and environmentally friendly,” ... But the costs of nationalization became clear within a few decades. Central economic planning - the eternal hope that never works.

smcl 2y ago
Seems to be working extremely well in China, to be honest.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  They've built entire cities that are completely vacant.
  - keybored 2y ago
    Like building transport infrastructure to nowhere, hmm? And then they build all the other infrastructure around it.[1] Because with such central planning you don’t need to build around and on top of existing infrastructure—you can build like in Sim City. That vacant “Paris” also turned out to become populated later. Ha ha they centrally planned a city and didn’t move people into it before it was done... like what you do when building a house. That’s effectively what you are alluding to as absurd. [1] But by that time the Western journalists might not care anymore whistles
    - WalterBright 2y ago
      google "vacant cities in china"
      - smcl 2y ago
        Oh yeah that's a boomer favourite! There are a bunch of articles from the early 2010s of Americans laughing at China for exactly this ... and a handful of more recent ones from the latter part of that decade conceding that actually those "ghost cities" are rapidly filling up. They don't do articles on them any more, it's too embarrassing because they're filling up and just turning out to be normal cities. You can get a nice overview of each on the wikipedia page if you like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underoccupied_developments_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underoccupied_developments_in_... They've also built thousands of miles of high-speed rail, many dozens of subway lines and elevated hundreds of millions into the middle class. I don't particularly like the CCP for a variety of reasons, however to downplay their incredible strategic planning starting in the early 1980s in terms of industry and infrastructure is to be frighteningly ignorant of the world outside your borders. If you're an older American, you can probably afford to live out the rest of your days in this blissful ignorance. The rest of us however will have to figure out how the rapid decline of the USA and ascendency of China will affect our lives and plan accordingly.
        WalterBright 2y ago
        From one year ago: https://x.com/60Minutes/status/1762205898217283781 https://x.com/60Minutes/status/1762205898217283781
        smcl 2y ago
        The link in that tweet leads to an article: U.S. ambassador on why China competition must be managed while keeping "the peace" Did you click the tweet or did just spend thirty minutes looking for a source to support the "ghost cities" claim, then rush to paste it here without looking that closely at it?
        WalterBright 2y ago
        But you don't like that one, though it did talk about massive insolvency in the real estate. Here's another from 2022: https://uschinatoday.org/features/2022/01/11/cities-lost-in-limbo-are-chinas-ghost-cities-here-to-stay https://uschinatoday.org/features/2022/01/11/cities-lost-in-...

smcl 2y ago

Seems to be working extremely well in China, to be honest.

WalterBright 2y ago
They've built entire cities that are completely vacant.
- keybored 2y ago
  Like building transport infrastructure to nowhere, hmm? And then they build all the other infrastructure around it.[1] Because with such central planning you don’t need to build around and on top of existing infrastructure—you can build like in Sim City. That vacant “Paris” also turned out to become populated later. Ha ha they centrally planned a city and didn’t move people into it before it was done... like what you do when building a house. That’s effectively what you are alluding to as absurd. [1] But by that time the Western journalists might not care anymore whistles
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    google "vacant cities in china"
    - smcl 2y ago
      Oh yeah that's a boomer favourite! There are a bunch of articles from the early 2010s of Americans laughing at China for exactly this ... and a handful of more recent ones from the latter part of that decade conceding that actually those "ghost cities" are rapidly filling up. They don't do articles on them any more, it's too embarrassing because they're filling up and just turning out to be normal cities. You can get a nice overview of each on the wikipedia page if you like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underoccupied_developments_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underoccupied_developments_in_... They've also built thousands of miles of high-speed rail, many dozens of subway lines and elevated hundreds of millions into the middle class. I don't particularly like the CCP for a variety of reasons, however to downplay their incredible strategic planning starting in the early 1980s in terms of industry and infrastructure is to be frighteningly ignorant of the world outside your borders. If you're an older American, you can probably afford to live out the rest of your days in this blissful ignorance. The rest of us however will have to figure out how the rapid decline of the USA and ascendency of China will affect our lives and plan accordingly.
      - WalterBright 2y ago
        From one year ago: https://x.com/60Minutes/status/1762205898217283781 https://x.com/60Minutes/status/1762205898217283781
        smcl 2y ago
        The link in that tweet leads to an article: U.S. ambassador on why China competition must be managed while keeping "the peace" Did you click the tweet or did just spend thirty minutes looking for a source to support the "ghost cities" claim, then rush to paste it here without looking that closely at it?
        WalterBright 2y ago
        But you don't like that one, though it did talk about massive insolvency in the real estate. Here's another from 2022: https://uschinatoday.org/features/2022/01/11/cities-lost-in-limbo-are-chinas-ghost-cities-here-to-stay https://uschinatoday.org/features/2022/01/11/cities-lost-in-...