3 ms·

Instead of always trying to get the government to listen to its citizens, wouldn't it be better if it were required to seek OUR approval for new legislation?

untog 14y ago
What do you think elections are? I realise that sounds sarcastic, but really- we have a democratic system for a reason. No, it doesn't work perfectly, but whole point is that they are representatives of us.
- alan_cx 14y ago
  Democratic? Really? Are we still kidding yourselves that we have some sort of democracy? Oh man. Representatives of "us"? Oh, you donated millions to an election fund, right? No? Oh, OK then, you're a lobbyist, backed by millions? No. Ah well, they aint representing you then. We are sold government in the same way tobacco companies sold tobacco in the past. Lies, misrepresentation, half truths, and attacks on the other brand. And because advertising is so powerful, yes it is, you think you are part of it. You're not, you are pawns. Necessary to get the "important" pieces in to position, but in the end, sacrificed at will for their greater good. Your jobs, homes, mortgages, businesses, financial health, health, all there for the taking so that those at the top can get rich, or as the banks have shown, survive and keep their bonuses. Its a filthy pyramid scheme, that we are conned in to supporting. Sorry, democracy is a myth. I assume its worse in the US.
  - sliverstorm 14y ago
    So what do you propose instead? Direct vote on every issue?
    - 385668 14y ago
      It would be an interesting thought, certainly I'd be willing to entertain the idea of some kind of e-voting system, wherein people could, at very least, keep a running poll for each senator/representative in their jurisdiction regarding each piece of legislation, maybe make it an electoral college/delegate thing. Accurate information is hard to come by in those regards, so a lot of politicians vote the way they've voted for decades because they assume people still believe what they did when they first ran for election. Additionally, I'm intrigued by the Pirate Parties' "liquid feedback" system, which allows people to have a back and forth with their representatives and each other, in addition to being able to vote on the party platform.
      - stretchwithme 14y ago
        Representatives know exactly who's supplying their campaign money and other inducements. And probably know how many citizens support various positions. Knowing is not the problem. Doing is the problem.
        stretchwithme 14y ago
        If you could only hire an attorney from 2 options selected by other people that you had no control over and you couldn't fire him for 4 years, who do you think your attorney would be working for?
- stretchwithme 14y ago
  winner-take-all elections are a poor substitute for a veto over legislation. Proportional representation is much better. Having both PR and the ability to approve or veto legislation is even better. Switzerland has BOTH of these features. And government is not the slave of lobbies as it is in the US. And there's no need for letter writing campaigns in a vain attempt to get these people to listen to the voters.

untog 14y ago

What do you think elections are? I realise that sounds sarcastic, but really- we have a democratic system for a reason. No, it doesn't work perfectly, but whole point is that they are representatives of us.

alan_cx 14y ago
Democratic? Really? Are we still kidding yourselves that we have some sort of democracy? Oh man. Representatives of "us"? Oh, you donated millions to an election fund, right? No? Oh, OK then, you're a lobbyist, backed by millions? No. Ah well, they aint representing you then. We are sold government in the same way tobacco companies sold tobacco in the past. Lies, misrepresentation, half truths, and attacks on the other brand. And because advertising is so powerful, yes it is, you think you are part of it. You're not, you are pawns. Necessary to get the "important" pieces in to position, but in the end, sacrificed at will for their greater good. Your jobs, homes, mortgages, businesses, financial health, health, all there for the taking so that those at the top can get rich, or as the banks have shown, survive and keep their bonuses. Its a filthy pyramid scheme, that we are conned in to supporting. Sorry, democracy is a myth. I assume its worse in the US.
- sliverstorm 14y ago
  So what do you propose instead? Direct vote on every issue?
  - 385668 14y ago
    It would be an interesting thought, certainly I'd be willing to entertain the idea of some kind of e-voting system, wherein people could, at very least, keep a running poll for each senator/representative in their jurisdiction regarding each piece of legislation, maybe make it an electoral college/delegate thing. Accurate information is hard to come by in those regards, so a lot of politicians vote the way they've voted for decades because they assume people still believe what they did when they first ran for election. Additionally, I'm intrigued by the Pirate Parties' "liquid feedback" system, which allows people to have a back and forth with their representatives and each other, in addition to being able to vote on the party platform.
    - stretchwithme 14y ago
      Representatives know exactly who's supplying their campaign money and other inducements. And probably know how many citizens support various positions. Knowing is not the problem. Doing is the problem.
      - stretchwithme 14y ago
        If you could only hire an attorney from 2 options selected by other people that you had no control over and you couldn't fire him for 4 years, who do you think your attorney would be working for?
stretchwithme 14y ago
winner-take-all elections are a poor substitute for a veto over legislation. Proportional representation is much better. Having both PR and the ability to approve or veto legislation is even better. Switzerland has BOTH of these features. And government is not the slave of lobbies as it is in the US. And there's no need for letter writing campaigns in a vain attempt to get these people to listen to the voters.