2 ms·

> The Dutch East Indies was literally "mining" spice ( cinnamon, cassia, cardamom, ginger, pepper, nutmeg, star anise, clove, and turmeric ) Only ginger and tu

by Terr_ 2y ago

> The Dutch East Indies was literally "mining" spice ( cinnamon, cassia, cardamom, ginger, pepper, nutmeg, star anise, clove, and turmeric ) Only ginger and turmeric are found below soil, and even then you wouldn't usually describe farmers as "literally mining for potatoes."

defrost 2y ago
The airquotes on "mining" would signify to some that literal mining with excavators, screens, crushers, etc was not intended rather an operation that was literally on the scale of mining with an economic return on par with gold mining a rich vein. Others might disagree. English is a fun language. What cannot be disputed is the significant increase in national wealth brought home by the Dutch operations in what was known as the Dutch East Indies. Batavia ( now Jakarta) was the capital of the VOC's lucrative spice trade for 3½ centuries. Ships laden with tamarind, mace, cloves and nutmeg – at that time worth more, gram for gram, than gold - sailed from there to the Netherlands and often wrecked on the Western Australian coast returning with gold. It's the value per weight part that merits comparison with Spanish aquisition of gold in the new world.
- ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
  However, using the word "literally" is a poor choice. "Figuratively" would be better, or even just leave out "literally" and allow "mining" to be interpreted by the reader.
  - defrost 2y ago
    It was deliberate choice in a sub thread that's literally about literary metaphors. As a native english reader, writer and speaker of some six decades I grasp the tension in the use of ' literally "airquoted" ' and embrace it. I also enjoy Riddley Walker, the first edition of Clockwork Orange (sans lexicographic annexure), and the outrageously provocative shock value of the opening sentence of Burgess's panoramic saga Earthly Powers. Your opinion is noted and respected.
    - ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
      > I grasp the tension in the use of ' literally "airquoted" ' and embrace it I can appreciate that and hope that I added to the tension.
      - defrost 2y ago
        Absolutely, I enjoyed making a comment that generated some push back and I enjoyed defending my considered choice. My only mild disappointment is that while I opened the door by airquoting "mining" and drawing attention to an actual nation scale spice industry no one made comment on the "spice mining" in both Dune and in the Spice mines of Kessel being both the harvesting of a seasonally produced organic bloom. In Dune the spice harvesters surface scooped fresh blooms as they appeared from active worms, on Kessel I believe (I'm no authority here) they harvested old buried organics using mineral mining techniques rather than fresh cropping from a surface source. EDIT: It appears the Kessel spice may have been a mineral? .. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Spice_mines_of_Kessel https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Spice_mines_of_Kessel TBH that's a rabbit hole of detail I'm happy to skirt.
kjs3 2y ago
"Mine" can also imply "exploit".

by Terr_ 2y ago

defrost 2y ago

The airquotes on "mining" would signify to some that literal mining with excavators, screens, crushers, etc was not intended rather an operation that was literally on the scale of mining with an economic return on par with gold mining a rich vein. Others might disagree. English is a fun language. What cannot be disputed is the significant increase in national wealth brought home by the Dutch operations in what was known as the Dutch East Indies. Batavia ( now Jakarta) was the capital of the VOC's lucrative spice trade for 3½ centuries. Ships laden with tamarind, mace, cloves and nutmeg – at that time worth more, gram for gram, than gold - sailed from there to the Netherlands and often wrecked on the Western Australian coast returning with gold. It's the value per weight part that merits comparison with Spanish aquisition of gold in the new world.

ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
However, using the word "literally" is a poor choice. "Figuratively" would be better, or even just leave out "literally" and allow "mining" to be interpreted by the reader.
- defrost 2y ago
  It was deliberate choice in a sub thread that's literally about literary metaphors. As a native english reader, writer and speaker of some six decades I grasp the tension in the use of ' literally "airquoted" ' and embrace it. I also enjoy Riddley Walker, the first edition of Clockwork Orange (sans lexicographic annexure), and the outrageously provocative shock value of the opening sentence of Burgess's panoramic saga Earthly Powers. Your opinion is noted and respected.
  - ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
    > I grasp the tension in the use of ' literally "airquoted" ' and embrace it I can appreciate that and hope that I added to the tension.
    - defrost 2y ago
      Absolutely, I enjoyed making a comment that generated some push back and I enjoyed defending my considered choice. My only mild disappointment is that while I opened the door by airquoting "mining" and drawing attention to an actual nation scale spice industry no one made comment on the "spice mining" in both Dune and in the Spice mines of Kessel being both the harvesting of a seasonally produced organic bloom. In Dune the spice harvesters surface scooped fresh blooms as they appeared from active worms, on Kessel I believe (I'm no authority here) they harvested old buried organics using mineral mining techniques rather than fresh cropping from a surface source. EDIT: It appears the Kessel spice may have been a mineral? .. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Spice_mines_of_Kessel https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Spice_mines_of_Kessel TBH that's a rabbit hole of detail I'm happy to skirt.

kjs3 2y ago

"Mine" can also imply "exploit".