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Linux makes you use the terminal and read manuals and edit configs to accomplish the most basic tasks. At least neither Windows nor macOS need that. Linux is fi

Linux makes you use the terminal and read manuals and edit configs to accomplish the most basic tasks. At least neither Windows nor macOS need that. Linux is fine for servers, but I can't fathom using that on my actual computer.

AndriyKunitsyn 2y ago
That's a... like 20 years old talking point by now? I mean, you can probably find _a_ Linux that's like what you say, but top Linux distros are nowhere like that.
maxhille 2y ago
I prefer config files a lot to settings GUIs. Two most important points that come to mind: 1. I can manage them in Git 2. GUIs change all the time. With configs you have a much higher probability that some solution you googled will still work even when it is a couple of years old.
- grishka 2y ago
  But GUIs show you all available options without having to read the docs. They only change when you install updates. You can simply not install updates that you don't like.
  - seec 2y ago
    Linux fanboys are completely delusional, if we listened to them, we would design an airliner cockpit with a keyboard and a single display to run a terminal and input everything as commands. They have just invested too much of their ego into knowing the arcane commands (and typing them well and fast) when it doesn't have much value, so they try to get dividends on that poor investment any way they can. There is no reason to not make a proper GUI for pretty much everything, unless the devs are lazy or trying to save time/money.
    - grishka 2y ago
      I mean I know how to use a unix system through the terminal, it's a basic skill for a software engineer, but I'm not enjoying any of that. Most CLI software is ridiculously user-hostile too. Oh you don't remember whether it's "update" or "upgrade"? Or which order the parameters need to be? Or whether it's one dash or two? Well fuck you, go read some manuals and come back when you're ready. And it's not just discoverability. A well-designed GUI is impossible to get into an invalid state. A CLI, on the other hand, offers infinite possibilities for invalid commands.
      - seec 2y ago
        Using commands is nothing special and can barely be considered a "skill" (you are just typing stuff instead of pushing buttons, no significant difference). But since it's obtuse and need a large investment (memory for command retention, typing proficiency and other tricks), people who had to suffer through that associate their ego with it and declare it superior so they can shame other people into compliance (even though they would be wasting time). As you said, a command interface allows you to shoot yourself in the foot in about a million ways, therefor it is a terrible tool. It is like having to handle a knife that is extremely to avoid cutting yourself with because it has no handle and has an edge on both sides. Makes absolutely no sense, someone who doesn't complain about such a "tool", is an idiot.
    - Nextgrid 2y ago
      > There is no reason to not make a proper GUI for pretty much everything Until you realize there are like 10 competing "standards" for settings, from config files in various incompatible formats in random places (not even obeying the XDG standard paths), to GSettings which is a Windows registry knockoff (and I bet KDE has its own - incompatible - equivalent), etc. And don't you dare try to centralize all that into a common system - last time someone tried something similar by centralizing system service management with systemd, people lost their shit. Orders of magnitude more effort has been wasted ranting and arguing about it than fixing its issues (if they were real in the first place, and not just theoretical or outright made up).
natrys 2y ago
Windows makes you open Registry Editor and tweak completely inscrutable key/value for those.

AndriyKunitsyn 2y ago

That's a... like 20 years old talking point by now? I mean, you can probably find _a_ Linux that's like what you say, but top Linux distros are nowhere like that.

maxhille 2y ago

I prefer config files a lot to settings GUIs. Two most important points that come to mind: 1. I can manage them in Git 2. GUIs change all the time. With configs you have a much higher probability that some solution you googled will still work even when it is a couple of years old.

grishka 2y ago
But GUIs show you all available options without having to read the docs. They only change when you install updates. You can simply not install updates that you don't like.
- seec 2y ago
  Linux fanboys are completely delusional, if we listened to them, we would design an airliner cockpit with a keyboard and a single display to run a terminal and input everything as commands. They have just invested too much of their ego into knowing the arcane commands (and typing them well and fast) when it doesn't have much value, so they try to get dividends on that poor investment any way they can. There is no reason to not make a proper GUI for pretty much everything, unless the devs are lazy or trying to save time/money.
  - grishka 2y ago
    I mean I know how to use a unix system through the terminal, it's a basic skill for a software engineer, but I'm not enjoying any of that. Most CLI software is ridiculously user-hostile too. Oh you don't remember whether it's "update" or "upgrade"? Or which order the parameters need to be? Or whether it's one dash or two? Well fuck you, go read some manuals and come back when you're ready. And it's not just discoverability. A well-designed GUI is impossible to get into an invalid state. A CLI, on the other hand, offers infinite possibilities for invalid commands.
    - seec 2y ago
      Using commands is nothing special and can barely be considered a "skill" (you are just typing stuff instead of pushing buttons, no significant difference). But since it's obtuse and need a large investment (memory for command retention, typing proficiency and other tricks), people who had to suffer through that associate their ego with it and declare it superior so they can shame other people into compliance (even though they would be wasting time). As you said, a command interface allows you to shoot yourself in the foot in about a million ways, therefor it is a terrible tool. It is like having to handle a knife that is extremely to avoid cutting yourself with because it has no handle and has an edge on both sides. Makes absolutely no sense, someone who doesn't complain about such a "tool", is an idiot.
  - Nextgrid 2y ago
    > There is no reason to not make a proper GUI for pretty much everything Until you realize there are like 10 competing "standards" for settings, from config files in various incompatible formats in random places (not even obeying the XDG standard paths), to GSettings which is a Windows registry knockoff (and I bet KDE has its own - incompatible - equivalent), etc. And don't you dare try to centralize all that into a common system - last time someone tried something similar by centralizing system service management with systemd, people lost their shit. Orders of magnitude more effort has been wasted ranting and arguing about it than fixing its issues (if they were real in the first place, and not just theoretical or outright made up).

natrys 2y ago

Windows makes you open Registry Editor and tweak completely inscrutable key/value for those.