5 ms·
What were those prior mistakes?
by rounce 2y ago
What were those prior mistakes?
- nxm 2y ago[flagged]
- olddustytrail 2y agoOnly idiots think immigration is uncontrolled. Practically all immigration is from government granted visas.
- lawgimenez 2y agoMy cousin migrated to UK to work as a nurse because it turns out UK’s hospitals are fucked up. Or, lacking manpower.
- rcxdude 2y agoyeah, because despite the UK training a huge number of doctors and nurses, the government doesn't want to pay them enough to stop them emigrating the the US or Australia, which have a lot of demand and much higher wages. So then they try to import health workers from elsewhere. Great plan.
- throwaway2037 2y agoNot to take the spotlight away from the UK, but I am pretty sure that all highly developed nations are struggling to find enough nurses amongst their citizens. Even Japan (gasp) has a special programme to help foreigners learn Japanese and immigrate as a skilled nurse.
- gottorf 2y ago> Only idiots think immigration is uncontrolled. Practically all immigration is from government granted visas. "Uncontrolled" in this context doesn't mean people hopping the border unbeknownst to the authorities. It means immigration at a rate high enough that it's beyond the capacity of the host nation to integrate the newcomers to its culture. A village of a thousand people can accept one additional person per year indefinitely with no material change to its way of life. But it cannot accept, say, a hundred a year, especially if the hundred immigrants come from a substantially different culture, without fundamentally changing the entire social fabric. And when such massive changes to society occur without buy-in from a convincing majority of people?[0] Well, only idiots would wonder why people think it's out of control. [0]: In the UK, Brexit made it clear that in fact the buy-in was in the other direction.
- throwaway2037 2y ago> It means immigration at a rate high enough that it's beyond the capacity of the host nation to integrate the newcomers to its culture. This resistance falls away quickly when food price inflation spirals out of control because you cannot find cheap labour for your harvests. (In 2025, there are zero highly developed nations, (yes, including Japan!) that do not heavily depend upon seasonal migrant labour to help with harvests.) Same when sick and elderly people have unreasonably long wait times at clinic or hospital due to doctor/nurse shortage.
- lurk2 2y agoYou can allow foreign laborers to work on farms without giving them a pathway towards citizenship that will lead to their becoming fiscal liabilities.
- lesuorac 2y agoSeriously? UK was the only EU member not part of the Schengen Zone as-in it was the only member you couldn't freely immigrate to. As well as it's an island, nobody hoping a boat from Morocco and landing in London. Pakistani's aren't taking your job. The economy is just stagnating. Post-Pandemic is a huge anomaly [1] but the article is talking about stuff pre-2019. [1]: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06077/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06...
- rjsw 2y agoFreedom of Movement applies to all EU members, it isn't restricted to the Schengen Zone.
- linksnapzz 2y agoThey're taking large portions of Bradford, Leeds etc. Also, the boat can go from Morocco to Ceuta, and its cargo can be delivered via lorry across the Channel.
- wkat4242 2y agoIreland was also not in Schengen. And still isn't due to being bound to the CTA with the UK in the good Friday agreement. Cyprus also. And Romania and Bulgaria weren't in it until last year.
- smcin 2y agoActually both the UK and Ireland were the only two EU members not part of the Schengen Zone (opt-outs since 1997). Since UK Brexit'ed in 2020, that just leaves Ireland.
- gpderetta 2y ago> it was the only member you couldn't freely immigrate to Aside from not being the only nation outside of Schengen, Schengen only implies freedom from borders checks. As an EU citizen you could still emigrate freely (or as freely as anywhere else in the EU) to a non-Schengen countries. I know I did.
- etc-hosts 2y agoYou think the relentless replacement of UK services by unhinged sovereign wealth funds is caused by 'uncontrolled immigration'? I'll have to study this more.
- ethbr1 2y agoThe irony about being anti-immigration is that immigration fuels economic growth. - Most developed countries have below-replacement child rates from citizens - Without larger younger, working age generations, social safety nets and productivity investments are difficult to finance - Immigration is the only thing fueling that population growth The real argument should be about rates of cultural assimilation or acculturation, wealth disparities and concentration of poverty, and structural limits to economic prosperity. Fighting immigration is just shooting oneself in their demographic foot. (See Japan and Russia)
- Mountain_Skies 2y agoIn capitalism, almost everything generates economic growth if you ignore the externalities.
- walthamstow 2y agoThe post you're replying to specifically says we should focus on the externalities of immigration, i.e. cultural assimilation.
- ethbr1 2y agoFundamentally, only three things generate growth. - More resources - More people - More productivity Since productivity is generally capped at a given technology level, and resources are finite, it simplifies to people.
- bumby 2y agoWhy the artificial constraint of assuming technology is constant? In not necessarily one to hope that tech will automatically bail us out, of the growth in the previous decades has been from tech innovations like automation.
- ethbr1 2y agoTechnology has a ceiling for a given time, across the world, which is really what you're competing with in a globalized economy. Which is to say that more technology isn't a solution out of a demographic hole, when you're competing with a country that has the same technology and better demographics.
- cycomanic 2y agoAh yes the migration boogieman. migrants are simultaneously uneducated and abusing the welfare system, but also take away people's jobs and push up house prices so that "ordinary" people can't afford houses anymore. Never mind that those accusations are contradictory.
- onlypassingthru 2y agoAllowing the concentration of wealth solely amongst the super wealthy.