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But I am actually interested in the economics! The author mentions sending her designs out to a factory - I would expect this is astonishingly expensive for a s

But I am actually interested in the economics! The author mentions sending her designs out to a factory - I would expect this is astonishingly expensive for a single prototype! Wouldn’t that be thousands of dollars? Is anyone familiar how to get good factory-made parts like this at DIY budgets? Not that that takes away from the article at all. This project has many merits, and although cost may not be one of them, it’s still interesting!

eitally 2y ago
No, it wouldn't cost thousands. There are plenty of shops that specialize in prototypes and small pilot runs and there's nothing complicated about the design or material of this product.
jdietrich 2y ago
SendCutSend offer surprisingly inexpensive sheet metal parts in single quantities. https://sendcutsend.com/ https://sendcutsend.com/
- Beijinger 2y ago
  I have ordered stuff here: https://www.schaeffer-ag.de/en/ https://www.schaeffer-ag.de/en/
- stevage 2y ago
  Whoa that looks really fun. Great website, love the video demo of using the siet.
  - _whiteCaps_ 2y ago
    They're a great service. I've done some laser cut aluminum bits for projects, and the quality is fantastic.
- bruckie 2y ago
  OSH Cut (https://oshcut.com/ https://oshcut.com/) provides similar services. Their automated DFM analysis software is pretty impressive. Perhaps more interesting to the audience here is that Caleb Chamberlain, the CEO (and a college acquaintance of mine), writes a series of articles about running the business for the trade publication The Fabricator. You can find them here: https://www.thefabricator.com/author/caleb-chamberlain https://www.thefabricator.com/author/caleb-chamberlain. He covers both business (operations, strategy) and technical aspects of running a highly automated small job metal fabrication shop.
- LMSolar 2y ago
  I am super late to mention this, but we use sendcutsend also, great results. For 3D work, was surprised not to see https://www.hubs.com/ https://www.hubs.com/ mentioned - used to be 3DHubs. US and international multi-axis machining, 3d printing, etc. Quite helpful.
rtsang1 2y ago
It looks like off the shelf electronics with custom sheet metal parts. Are far as low volume prototyping goes, sheet metal is as cost efficient as it gets for large metal parts. If you're sourcing from China, I'd estimate 500 bucks per prototype (with two sets in case one breaks).
nancyminusone 2y ago
I build things like this in similarly low quantity - you are probably looking at a grand or two toaster kit there, 95% of which is the custom parts - if it was done locally. The time for someone else to do it is what your paying for. It can be done exceptionally cheap in dollars if YOU do it, but you'll still pay with your time, and you'll still need machine access. Cheap and easy "factory" quality is probably PCBWAY or similar in China - they do more than PCBs these days. Call it "prototype" budget - several hundred dollars of parts instead of thousands.
- AlotOfReading 2y ago
  My experience is that PCBWay and similar usually offer better quality than doing it yourself. They get their costs down by automating everything they can. They're usually competitive at initial samples than many of the big houses too for essentially the same reason.
- TylerE 2y ago
  The other big insight here is that often making 50 doesn't cost much more than making 1, as much of the cost will be in programming and setup charges, not actually running the part. Sheet steel is pretty cheap, too.
michaelmior 2y ago
> sending his designs out sending her designs out
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- josephwegner 2y ago
  Thank you. It's too late to edit, but goodness am I embarrassed now. Very sorry, Kasey!
  - dang 2y ago
    I've taken the liberty of doing a s/his/her/ in your comment above; I hope that's ok. (Edit: er, I mean s/ his/ her/. The thises are all intact.)
michaelt 2y ago
It all depends on what you ask the factory to do. This project seems to take its heating elements, clockwork timer and knob from a classic Dualit 2 Slice toaster - so those parts are all available off-the-shelf. Other than that, this design needs some laser cut and bent metal, and some wooden feet. If you're able to bend the metal yourself and find some off-the-shelf feet, you could probably get the flat sheets of stainless steel laser cut and shipped for less than $100. On the other hand, if one wanted a factory to do more demanding production processes, with more worker time or more machine setup - you're right that it would cost a good deal more.
- MobiusHorizons 2y ago
  There are also services that can do the sheet metal bending for you if you have the cad designed. Of course shipping can get pricey, but I think it’s not prohibitively expensive.
- tomgp 2y ago
  On the subject of Dualit toasters: I've picked several up on the street over the years, cleaned them up and replaced a few parts (heating elements and/ or timers) and for about £10 effectively had a new toaster to give away/ sell. Dualit toasters aren't the best but I wholeheartedly recomend them from the point of view of DIY repair and maintainence. Our current model is 20 years old this year.
  - crispyambulance 2y ago
    Yeah, the knob and the lack of automated pop-out made me think that they at least deeply evaluated dualit models. I have 2 dualits. Both inherited, both well over 20 years old. There really is not much to repair with these things. I will say the OP’s design looks cool, it’s certainly an interesting exercise and portfolio item.
  - Retr0id 2y ago
    The last one I picked up off the street had no problems whatsoever, except for the fact that the power cord had been cut off. Presumably someone had cut it off deliberately, which is infuriating - but hey, free toaster.
sizzle 2y ago
Isn’t this the perfect type of project/product for Kickstarter?
- serviceberry 2y ago
  Perfect in what sense? Kickstarter is useful if you're thinking of doing something capital-intensive and need money and customers beforehand. This comes with downsides: deadlines, shipping, cranky customers, etc. This is a hobby project and there's nothing to suggest that the author wants to get in the business of selling toasters for a living... or that it would be wise for them to do so.

eitally 2y ago

No, it wouldn't cost thousands. There are plenty of shops that specialize in prototypes and small pilot runs and there's nothing complicated about the design or material of this product.

jdietrich 2y ago

SendCutSend offer surprisingly inexpensive sheet metal parts in single quantities. https://sendcutsend.com/ https://sendcutsend.com/

Beijinger 2y ago
I have ordered stuff here: https://www.schaeffer-ag.de/en/ https://www.schaeffer-ag.de/en/
stevage 2y ago
Whoa that looks really fun. Great website, love the video demo of using the siet.
- _whiteCaps_ 2y ago
  They're a great service. I've done some laser cut aluminum bits for projects, and the quality is fantastic.
bruckie 2y ago
OSH Cut (https://oshcut.com/ https://oshcut.com/) provides similar services. Their automated DFM analysis software is pretty impressive. Perhaps more interesting to the audience here is that Caleb Chamberlain, the CEO (and a college acquaintance of mine), writes a series of articles about running the business for the trade publication The Fabricator. You can find them here: https://www.thefabricator.com/author/caleb-chamberlain https://www.thefabricator.com/author/caleb-chamberlain. He covers both business (operations, strategy) and technical aspects of running a highly automated small job metal fabrication shop.
LMSolar 2y ago
I am super late to mention this, but we use sendcutsend also, great results. For 3D work, was surprised not to see https://www.hubs.com/ https://www.hubs.com/ mentioned - used to be 3DHubs. US and international multi-axis machining, 3d printing, etc. Quite helpful.

rtsang1 2y ago

It looks like off the shelf electronics with custom sheet metal parts. Are far as low volume prototyping goes, sheet metal is as cost efficient as it gets for large metal parts. If you're sourcing from China, I'd estimate 500 bucks per prototype (with two sets in case one breaks).

nancyminusone 2y ago

I build things like this in similarly low quantity - you are probably looking at a grand or two toaster kit there, 95% of which is the custom parts - if it was done locally. The time for someone else to do it is what your paying for. It can be done exceptionally cheap in dollars if YOU do it, but you'll still pay with your time, and you'll still need machine access. Cheap and easy "factory" quality is probably PCBWAY or similar in China - they do more than PCBs these days. Call it "prototype" budget - several hundred dollars of parts instead of thousands.

AlotOfReading 2y ago
My experience is that PCBWay and similar usually offer better quality than doing it yourself. They get their costs down by automating everything they can. They're usually competitive at initial samples than many of the big houses too for essentially the same reason.
TylerE 2y ago
The other big insight here is that often making 50 doesn't cost much more than making 1, as much of the cost will be in programming and setup charges, not actually running the part. Sheet steel is pretty cheap, too.

michaelmior 2y ago

> sending his designs out sending her designs out

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
josephwegner 2y ago
Thank you. It's too late to edit, but goodness am I embarrassed now. Very sorry, Kasey!
- dang 2y ago
  I've taken the liberty of doing a s/his/her/ in your comment above; I hope that's ok. (Edit: er, I mean s/ his/ her/. The thises are all intact.)

michaelt 2y ago

It all depends on what you ask the factory to do. This project seems to take its heating elements, clockwork timer and knob from a classic Dualit 2 Slice toaster - so those parts are all available off-the-shelf. Other than that, this design needs some laser cut and bent metal, and some wooden feet. If you're able to bend the metal yourself and find some off-the-shelf feet, you could probably get the flat sheets of stainless steel laser cut and shipped for less than $100. On the other hand, if one wanted a factory to do more demanding production processes, with more worker time or more machine setup - you're right that it would cost a good deal more.

MobiusHorizons 2y ago
There are also services that can do the sheet metal bending for you if you have the cad designed. Of course shipping can get pricey, but I think it’s not prohibitively expensive.
tomgp 2y ago
On the subject of Dualit toasters: I've picked several up on the street over the years, cleaned them up and replaced a few parts (heating elements and/ or timers) and for about £10 effectively had a new toaster to give away/ sell. Dualit toasters aren't the best but I wholeheartedly recomend them from the point of view of DIY repair and maintainence. Our current model is 20 years old this year.
- crispyambulance 2y ago
  Yeah, the knob and the lack of automated pop-out made me think that they at least deeply evaluated dualit models. I have 2 dualits. Both inherited, both well over 20 years old. There really is not much to repair with these things. I will say the OP’s design looks cool, it’s certainly an interesting exercise and portfolio item.
- Retr0id 2y ago
  The last one I picked up off the street had no problems whatsoever, except for the fact that the power cord had been cut off. Presumably someone had cut it off deliberately, which is infuriating - but hey, free toaster.

sizzle 2y ago

Isn’t this the perfect type of project/product for Kickstarter?

serviceberry 2y ago
Perfect in what sense? Kickstarter is useful if you're thinking of doing something capital-intensive and need money and customers beforehand. This comes with downsides: deadlines, shipping, cranky customers, etc. This is a hobby project and there's nothing to suggest that the author wants to get in the business of selling toasters for a living... or that it would be wise for them to do so.