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Funny, my first thought in seeing this headline was The Toaster Project by Thomas Thwaites: http://www.thetoasterproject.org/ http://www.thetoasterproject.org/

Funny, my first thought in seeing this headline was The Toaster Project by Thomas Thwaites: http://www.thetoasterproject.org/ http://www.thetoasterproject.org/ (~2010) - more of a reflection about globalism and what is possible to create from scratch. https://www.ted.com/talks/thomas_thwaites_how_i_built_a_toaster_from_scratch?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/thomas_thwaites_how_i_built_a_toas...

krisoft 2y ago
What I don't like about Thomas Thwaites's Toaster project is that I feel the end product intentionally looks bad. I feel the artist could have chosen different paths and could have created a practical toaster just with a little bit of care. The artist just choose to not do that because if the toaster would look practical and usable that would undermine their message about globalism, and the supposed impossibility of the task. Because in a project like this "man sets out to build a toaster, and actually succeeds" does not sounds good. And that just feels like learned helplessness.
- jdietrich 2y ago
  He's an artist, not an engineer. I'm willing to believe that the toaster genuinely is his best effort. I know that I could do far better, but I have a lifetime of experience in herding atoms. I suspect that my attempt at oil painting would be equally risible.
  - iamwil 2y ago
    You should try it. I'd love to see what an engineer could do with building toasters from scratch.
  - krisoft 2y ago
    > He's an artist, not an engineer. He is by training an industrial designer. But also, there is no clear boundary between being an artist and being an engineer. There are artist who show great mastery of engineering in their art work. Either because they studied engineering, or because they picked up enough relevant skills practically to achieve what they want to achieve. I have a particular taste and not everyone will agree what is and isn’t art. But i consider for example David C. Roy‘s wooden kinetic sculptures both art and engineering. Similarly Jacob Tonski’s Balance from Within (a victorian sofa balancing on a single leg) incorporates both art and excelent engineering. Or Thea Ulrich’s aerial moon sculpture. Where the physical manufacturing of the sculpture is the engineering component, while the aerial dance performed on it is the art component. In each of these they could have said “hey I’m just an artist, you can’t possibly expect my thing to work” or “hey i’m an engineer, you can’t possibly expect my thing to have artistic value”. But they were not satisfied with either of those, and pushed themselves, their art and their craft until they got something wonderfull. Where there is a will there is a way. And where the will is to make the object look shitty, you will get that result. Which is fine. But i have heard people draw the conclusion from his work that somehow this is the best anyone can do. And that is not fine with me.
    - rnewme 2y ago
      I, too, would like if his product was built as well as possible, ideally all shiny and almost too perfect to belive it was made in such a way.
croisillon 2y ago
and strangely none of the past posts have any comments https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=toaster%20project&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
- timerol 2y ago
  Try https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=673035 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=673035. The project itself didn't get traction, but an article about the project did
  - croisillon 2y ago
    good find! (i have the book)

krisoft 2y ago

What I don't like about Thomas Thwaites's Toaster project is that I feel the end product intentionally looks bad. I feel the artist could have chosen different paths and could have created a practical toaster just with a little bit of care. The artist just choose to not do that because if the toaster would look practical and usable that would undermine their message about globalism, and the supposed impossibility of the task. Because in a project like this "man sets out to build a toaster, and actually succeeds" does not sounds good. And that just feels like learned helplessness.

jdietrich 2y ago
He's an artist, not an engineer. I'm willing to believe that the toaster genuinely is his best effort. I know that I could do far better, but I have a lifetime of experience in herding atoms. I suspect that my attempt at oil painting would be equally risible.
- iamwil 2y ago
  You should try it. I'd love to see what an engineer could do with building toasters from scratch.
- krisoft 2y ago
  > He's an artist, not an engineer. He is by training an industrial designer. But also, there is no clear boundary between being an artist and being an engineer. There are artist who show great mastery of engineering in their art work. Either because they studied engineering, or because they picked up enough relevant skills practically to achieve what they want to achieve. I have a particular taste and not everyone will agree what is and isn’t art. But i consider for example David C. Roy‘s wooden kinetic sculptures both art and engineering. Similarly Jacob Tonski’s Balance from Within (a victorian sofa balancing on a single leg) incorporates both art and excelent engineering. Or Thea Ulrich’s aerial moon sculpture. Where the physical manufacturing of the sculpture is the engineering component, while the aerial dance performed on it is the art component. In each of these they could have said “hey I’m just an artist, you can’t possibly expect my thing to work” or “hey i’m an engineer, you can’t possibly expect my thing to have artistic value”. But they were not satisfied with either of those, and pushed themselves, their art and their craft until they got something wonderfull. Where there is a will there is a way. And where the will is to make the object look shitty, you will get that result. Which is fine. But i have heard people draw the conclusion from his work that somehow this is the best anyone can do. And that is not fine with me.
  - rnewme 2y ago
    I, too, would like if his product was built as well as possible, ideally all shiny and almost too perfect to belive it was made in such a way.

croisillon 2y ago

and strangely none of the past posts have any comments https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=toaster%20project&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

timerol 2y ago
Try https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=673035 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=673035. The project itself didn't get traction, but an article about the project did
- croisillon 2y ago
  good find! (i have the book)