7 ms·

Any article instructing people to lie should not be circulated, let alone on the front page of HN. Glad to see this didn't last long.

slurgfest 14y ago
Why do you say that - is that because you think it is always wrong to lie?
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- LiamPfeiffer 14y ago
  Yes. Lying perpetuates this "save yourself" culture. Without citing white lies (presumably made to save the person being lied to), please share an example when it is right to lie?
  - ucee054 14y ago
    "Are you sure that you have not seen any jews here?" 'Nein nein, no one here at all, Brigadeführer. Will tell you right away if I see any, honest'
    - lotharbot 14y ago
      In the Jewish/Christian scriptures, Joshua 2 tells the story of Rahab lying in order to hide a pair of Jewish spies. She is considered one of the great heroes of the Bible.
    - ciupicri 14y ago
      >> Without citing white lies (presumably made to save the person being lied to)
      - ucee054 14y ago
        My comment was not about advantaging the person being lied to but the person being lied about (and being saved), in my example a third party. The white lie example is more like "No darling your bottom doesn't look fat in that dress" (The Reginald Hunter Youtube clip I included elsewhere illustrates that point in a comedy sketch). Actually this isn't even the definition of a white lie; White lies are lies about trivial matters. It's not about saving the other person but about saving face for the other person. From wikipedia: "White lies are minor lies which could be considered to be harmless, or even beneficial, in the long term. White lies are also considered to be used for greater good."
  - darkarmani 14y ago
    And never lying perpetuates the wage-slave culture of blind loyalty to our corporate overlords that only see people as interchangeable cogs. Or maybe it's not black and white hyperbole and the real world is a messy place that requires more than unrealistic guidelines like "never lie."
- Florin_Andrei 14y ago
  http://www.samharris.org/images/uploads/LYING.pdf http://www.samharris.org/images/uploads/LYING.pdf
kstenerud 14y ago
Lying is a necessary part of human interaction. I would suggest you read "The Art of Lying" by Kazuo Sakai M.D. and Nakana Ide. http://www.amazon.com/The-Lying-Kazuo-Sakai-M-D/dp/1578260558 http://www.amazon.com/The-Lying-Kazuo-Sakai-M-D/dp/157826055...
- LiamPfeiffer 14y ago
  "Lying is a necessary part of human interaction" For you maybe.
  - theorique 14y ago
    For you maybe. I think this is a lie.
- runjake 14y ago
  Or if you're pressed for time, the following short TED Talk also explains the realities well: http://www.ted.com/talks/pamela_meyer_how_to_spot_a_liar.html http://www.ted.com/talks/pamela_meyer_how_to_spot_a_liar.htm...
pizza 14y ago
Why not? edit: if you're going to downvote, you could at the very minimum explain how I didn't contribute?
carl_ 14y ago
More so because it is just another of many rehashes of http://h30565.www3.hp.com/t5/Feature-Articles/Don-t-Bother-Being-Honest-in-Exit-Interviews/ba-p/4828 http://h30565.www3.hp.com/t5/Feature-Articles/Don-t-Bother-B... which has already been covered widely http://slashdot.org/story/12/07/23/2335257/being-honest-in-exit-interviews-is-pointless http://slashdot.org/story/12/07/23/2335257/being-honest-in-e...
ucee054 14y ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=415gf6vjytU&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=415gf6vjytU&feature=relat...
illuminate 14y ago
Do you even understand the topic? Was your lie of omission that you didn't read it before you commented?
darkarmani 14y ago
Why shouldn't people lie? As an ex-employee you no longer have a duty to tell the truth to your previous employer.
- prodigal_erik 14y ago
  All my exit interviews have been held before the end of my last day, for which I still receive a full day's salary. Typically they end with signing a termination agreement that makes me officially unemployed. If they called for advice later I still wouldn't lie, though I might want compensation for some kind of really big imposition.
  - darkarmani 14y ago
    So, would you expect the company to tell you about strategic direction of the company up until the exact second of your leaving? Surely, if you are expected to bare your kimono up until the last second, they would have no problem sharing all of the same confidential information you've been privy to while working there. Or is it more likely that both sides fully understand that there is an untangling and winding down of trust?

slurgfest 14y ago

Why do you say that - is that because you think it is always wrong to lie?

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
LiamPfeiffer 14y ago
Yes. Lying perpetuates this "save yourself" culture. Without citing white lies (presumably made to save the person being lied to), please share an example when it is right to lie?
- ucee054 14y ago
  "Are you sure that you have not seen any jews here?" 'Nein nein, no one here at all, Brigadeführer. Will tell you right away if I see any, honest'
  - lotharbot 14y ago
    In the Jewish/Christian scriptures, Joshua 2 tells the story of Rahab lying in order to hide a pair of Jewish spies. She is considered one of the great heroes of the Bible.
  - ciupicri 14y ago
    >> Without citing white lies (presumably made to save the person being lied to)
    - ucee054 14y ago
      My comment was not about advantaging the person being lied to but the person being lied about (and being saved), in my example a third party. The white lie example is more like "No darling your bottom doesn't look fat in that dress" (The Reginald Hunter Youtube clip I included elsewhere illustrates that point in a comedy sketch). Actually this isn't even the definition of a white lie; White lies are lies about trivial matters. It's not about saving the other person but about saving face for the other person. From wikipedia: "White lies are minor lies which could be considered to be harmless, or even beneficial, in the long term. White lies are also considered to be used for greater good."
- darkarmani 14y ago
  And never lying perpetuates the wage-slave culture of blind loyalty to our corporate overlords that only see people as interchangeable cogs. Or maybe it's not black and white hyperbole and the real world is a messy place that requires more than unrealistic guidelines like "never lie."
Florin_Andrei 14y ago
http://www.samharris.org/images/uploads/LYING.pdf http://www.samharris.org/images/uploads/LYING.pdf

kstenerud 14y ago

Lying is a necessary part of human interaction. I would suggest you read "The Art of Lying" by Kazuo Sakai M.D. and Nakana Ide. http://www.amazon.com/The-Lying-Kazuo-Sakai-M-D/dp/1578260558 http://www.amazon.com/The-Lying-Kazuo-Sakai-M-D/dp/157826055...

LiamPfeiffer 14y ago
"Lying is a necessary part of human interaction" For you maybe.
- theorique 14y ago
  For you maybe. I think this is a lie.
runjake 14y ago
Or if you're pressed for time, the following short TED Talk also explains the realities well: http://www.ted.com/talks/pamela_meyer_how_to_spot_a_liar.html http://www.ted.com/talks/pamela_meyer_how_to_spot_a_liar.htm...

pizza 14y ago

Why not? edit: if you're going to downvote, you could at the very minimum explain how I didn't contribute?

carl_ 14y ago

More so because it is just another of many rehashes of http://h30565.www3.hp.com/t5/Feature-Articles/Don-t-Bother-Being-Honest-in-Exit-Interviews/ba-p/4828 http://h30565.www3.hp.com/t5/Feature-Articles/Don-t-Bother-B... which has already been covered widely http://slashdot.org/story/12/07/23/2335257/being-honest-in-exit-interviews-is-pointless http://slashdot.org/story/12/07/23/2335257/being-honest-in-e...

ucee054 14y ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=415gf6vjytU&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=415gf6vjytU&feature=relat...

illuminate 14y ago

Do you even understand the topic? Was your lie of omission that you didn't read it before you commented?

darkarmani 14y ago

Why shouldn't people lie? As an ex-employee you no longer have a duty to tell the truth to your previous employer.

prodigal_erik 14y ago
All my exit interviews have been held before the end of my last day, for which I still receive a full day's salary. Typically they end with signing a termination agreement that makes me officially unemployed. If they called for advice later I still wouldn't lie, though I might want compensation for some kind of really big imposition.
- darkarmani 14y ago
  So, would you expect the company to tell you about strategic direction of the company up until the exact second of your leaving? Surely, if you are expected to bare your kimono up until the last second, they would have no problem sharing all of the same confidential information you've been privy to while working there. Or is it more likely that both sides fully understand that there is an untangling and winding down of trust?