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> I recognize my behavior at that moment did not reflect our values at SAP. This line in corporate apology statements is so weird, like SAP had some unique hig

> I recognize my behavior at that moment did not reflect our values at SAP. This line in corporate apology statements is so weird, like SAP had some unique higher ethical code that opposed sexual harassment, which only one called to the service of humanity as a SAP executive would understand. I guess whoever writes these things always throws it in to try to subtly reassure people that it's not systemic?

lazide 2y ago
It’s a condition of the payout (along with a huge NDA I’m sure) for exactly that reason. Otherwise, in theory the CTO would be free to make a giant mess with ‘everyone was fucking each other’s wives, and I got confused which one I was doing today so here we are’. I’m sure whatever group cut the check feels it was worth it.
akudha 2y ago
What “value” does any for profit company have, except ya know, profits? Especially multinational corporations and especially Silicon Valley bro-companies? I wish we could somehow ban words like values, family, standards etc from corporate lingo. Why can’t this dude just take the money and go quietly? Does he really think that someone is going to read his statement and think “ah, poor guy, it was an honest mistake”? The level of fakery in the corporate world … yikes
- tmpz22 2y ago
  That’s crap. Organizations reflect the individuals within them. An organization can have a value if the actual people there uphold it. If an organization is hollow then the people within it are hollow. If a corporation is greedy then the people within it are greedy.
  - cyanydeez 2y ago
    Organizations reflect the values of who gets paid the most to manage them
  - aadhavans 2y ago
    Disagree. Corporations reflect the _decision-makers_. The average rank-and-file employee at an MNC couldn't care less about the values, regardless of how virtuous they might be.
    - tmpz22 2y ago
      Workers have agency if they want to. They can strike, they can quit, they can maliciously comply. Deciding not to do those things for economic comfort is its own vote of support. There are options available for workers to assert influence. They’ve done it to spectacular effect throughout history.
      - aadhavans 2y ago
        > Deciding not to do those things for economic comfort is its own vote of support. Not in a surveillance state. It's easy for a company/government to identify unrest and deal with the perpetrators, before anything breaks out. These institutions have the power to ruin your life for showing any signs of protest.
      - raxxorraxor 2y ago
        > Deciding not to do those things for economic comfort is its own vote of support. That is reductive. People have their own responsibilities and are dependent on income. This is the vast majority of workers. They do have agency but usually larger action is done if circumstances reach certain thresholds.
- manquer 2y ago
  You are right that everything is about money in a for profit enterprise, however that does not preclude organizational values. Those things are profitable too, by generating goodwill (which is accounted for in GAAP), positive brand influence or simply by reducing liability from suits and settlements The impact is real and tangible in measurable things like hiring to retention to sales to pricing and so on . B2B orgs like SAP would have more difficulty (pay more) in hiring and retaining talent when culture is more toxic and does not basic values people would like to see in a workspace. It is also important while frustrating to most people that those values are soft and don’t alienate any significant part of stakeholders. In the long run DEI, values and other initiatives is cheaper and therefore profitable. Tesla is good example of why shareholders loose when the CEO has strong political leanings. Matt Levine take that everything is securities fraud is basically the same view point from a shareholder perspective. The caveat is, it only has to feel those things matter not that they actually do, it is much harder to fake it over the long run though. Apple for example makes the consumer feel their phones are Eco-friendly with all the recycling pitch they do. A sincere approach to ESG here would be to design phones that are repairable with replaceable parts like the fairphone tries and give the consumer the right to do fix their own devices. Apple cannot do that without hurting profits so they will not . We will get local optima like this without external help, Apple after all is eco-friendly compared to most other devices on the market after all. To push them over is where regulation and government intervention when done right works
  - derivagral 2y ago
    > which is accounted for in GAAP This isn't the accounting definition of goodwill; to an accountant, its just "hey you overpaid according to book value." I don't think the HR "goodwill" is formally accounted for. https://www.purdueglobal.edu/blog/business/gaap-treatment-of-goodwill/ https://www.purdueglobal.edu/blog/business/gaap-treatment-of...
    - manquer 2y ago
      Goodwill is realized only a sale yes. It is the difference between the fair market value of the assets and the price (i.e. value) paid of the asset. FMV is calculated and updated in books periodically, price or value is only possible to account for if there is a sale otherwise any metric for value is not sound accounting wise, but that doesn't mean those things don't have value at all(or only on sale), they are just not accounted until then. It is for a good reason you wouldn't want a company to say use goodwill as a security for leverage for example. Goodwill does conventionally include intangible value like brand, some forms of IP, and things like customer(employee?) loyalty and so on.

lazide 2y ago

It’s a condition of the payout (along with a huge NDA I’m sure) for exactly that reason. Otherwise, in theory the CTO would be free to make a giant mess with ‘everyone was fucking each other’s wives, and I got confused which one I was doing today so here we are’. I’m sure whatever group cut the check feels it was worth it.

akudha 2y ago

What “value” does any for profit company have, except ya know, profits? Especially multinational corporations and especially Silicon Valley bro-companies? I wish we could somehow ban words like values, family, standards etc from corporate lingo. Why can’t this dude just take the money and go quietly? Does he really think that someone is going to read his statement and think “ah, poor guy, it was an honest mistake”? The level of fakery in the corporate world … yikes

tmpz22 2y ago
That’s crap. Organizations reflect the individuals within them. An organization can have a value if the actual people there uphold it. If an organization is hollow then the people within it are hollow. If a corporation is greedy then the people within it are greedy.
- cyanydeez 2y ago
  Organizations reflect the values of who gets paid the most to manage them
- aadhavans 2y ago
  Disagree. Corporations reflect the _decision-makers_. The average rank-and-file employee at an MNC couldn't care less about the values, regardless of how virtuous they might be.
  - tmpz22 2y ago
    Workers have agency if they want to. They can strike, they can quit, they can maliciously comply. Deciding not to do those things for economic comfort is its own vote of support. There are options available for workers to assert influence. They’ve done it to spectacular effect throughout history.
    - aadhavans 2y ago
      > Deciding not to do those things for economic comfort is its own vote of support. Not in a surveillance state. It's easy for a company/government to identify unrest and deal with the perpetrators, before anything breaks out. These institutions have the power to ruin your life for showing any signs of protest.
    - raxxorraxor 2y ago
      > Deciding not to do those things for economic comfort is its own vote of support. That is reductive. People have their own responsibilities and are dependent on income. This is the vast majority of workers. They do have agency but usually larger action is done if circumstances reach certain thresholds.
manquer 2y ago
You are right that everything is about money in a for profit enterprise, however that does not preclude organizational values. Those things are profitable too, by generating goodwill (which is accounted for in GAAP), positive brand influence or simply by reducing liability from suits and settlements The impact is real and tangible in measurable things like hiring to retention to sales to pricing and so on . B2B orgs like SAP would have more difficulty (pay more) in hiring and retaining talent when culture is more toxic and does not basic values people would like to see in a workspace. It is also important while frustrating to most people that those values are soft and don’t alienate any significant part of stakeholders. In the long run DEI, values and other initiatives is cheaper and therefore profitable. Tesla is good example of why shareholders loose when the CEO has strong political leanings. Matt Levine take that everything is securities fraud is basically the same view point from a shareholder perspective. The caveat is, it only has to feel those things matter not that they actually do, it is much harder to fake it over the long run though. Apple for example makes the consumer feel their phones are Eco-friendly with all the recycling pitch they do. A sincere approach to ESG here would be to design phones that are repairable with replaceable parts like the fairphone tries and give the consumer the right to do fix their own devices. Apple cannot do that without hurting profits so they will not . We will get local optima like this without external help, Apple after all is eco-friendly compared to most other devices on the market after all. To push them over is where regulation and government intervention when done right works
- derivagral 2y ago
  > which is accounted for in GAAP This isn't the accounting definition of goodwill; to an accountant, its just "hey you overpaid according to book value." I don't think the HR "goodwill" is formally accounted for. https://www.purdueglobal.edu/blog/business/gaap-treatment-of-goodwill/ https://www.purdueglobal.edu/blog/business/gaap-treatment-of...
  - manquer 2y ago
    Goodwill is realized only a sale yes. It is the difference between the fair market value of the assets and the price (i.e. value) paid of the asset. FMV is calculated and updated in books periodically, price or value is only possible to account for if there is a sale otherwise any metric for value is not sound accounting wise, but that doesn't mean those things don't have value at all(or only on sale), they are just not accounted until then. It is for a good reason you wouldn't want a company to say use goodwill as a security for leverage for example. Goodwill does conventionally include intangible value like brand, some forms of IP, and things like customer(employee?) loyalty and so on.