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Actually owning your laptop instead of being locked in a garden/prison managed by a soulless corporation is a must for me. Notably MBP benefits don't matter mu

Actually owning your laptop instead of being locked in a garden/prison managed by a soulless corporation is a must for me. Notably MBP benefits don't matter much you're using your laptop as a mobile workstation. People love to boast about Mac's batter life, but my Framework is set in BIOS to 60% of max battery life because 95% of the time it's standing on a stand, plugged to an external screen and keyboard&mouse. As a developer I need a proper chair, split keyboard, good posture, if I want to make it to the old age with this lifestyle. Laptop form factor is for this 5% of the time when I want/need to work from somewhere else than my desk. Also, if you're a developer there's a lot of perf loss and impedance mismatch with Linux ecosystem (like x86_64 emulation) on Mac. So Framework is kind of a Linux dev go to machine ATM. Different priorities. For others ... yeah... a nice appliance like MBP might be a better choice. Oh, and the biggest advantage, is that I can replace a lot of stuff and not need to lose my stickers!

aurareturn 2y ago
Actually owning your laptop instead of being locked in a garden/prison managed by a soulless corporation is a must for me. macOS is open. Notably MBP benefits don't matter much you're using your laptop as a mobile workstation. People love to boast about Mac's batter life, but my Framework is set in BIOS to 60% of max battery life because 95% of the time it's standing on a stand, plugged to an external screen and keyboard&mouse. As a developer I need a proper chair, split keyboard, good posture, if I want to make it to the old age with this lifestyle. Laptop form factor is for this 5% of the time when I want/need to work from somewhere else than my desk. If battery life doesn't matter to you, then surely speed does right? M4 Pro is roughly 56% faster in ST and about the same in MT. Also, if you're a developer there's a lot of perf loss and impedance mismatch with Linux ecosystem (like x86_64 emulation) on Mac. Even after emulation, Apple Silicon is often still faster. The fastest Windows laptop is actually an M4 Max running Parallels. So Framework is kind of a Linux dev go to machine ATM. Different priorities. For others ... yeah... a nice appliance like MBP might be a better choice. Agreed. I think most people prefer macOS as a dev OS to Linux. Oh, and the biggest advantage, is that I can replace a lot of stuff and not need to lose my stickers! Framework's parts are known to be very expensive. It's probably cheaper to simply sell your Apple Silicon laptop (which always has high resale value) and simply buy a new one.
- ilioscio 2y ago
  I think it's great that Apple continues to bring powerful hardware to market but their software quality has fallen behind, laggy performance issues and fewer and fewer devs building for macOS due to Apple's oppressive package signing policies. If I had to choose between slightly less powerful hardware (who cares?) and having replaceable and upgradable parts I'm gonna choose that every time. Upgrading between macbooks is more expensive than upgrading between Framework models. Also what do you mean by 'macOS is open' in what regard is it open?
  - aurareturn 2y ago
    M4 Pro is 56% faster in single thread while being 3.6x more efficient. Thats not “slightly”. Thats generations behind.
    - ilioscio 2y ago
      And if that 56% faster chip didn't exist, or if it were replaced tomorrow by an even better chip that doesn't mean I need it to do my work. I don't see why I should chase benchmarks anymore if it doesn't give me any new real benefits, and the vision and execution behind macOS as an ecosystem doesn't seem to be getting any better

aurareturn 2y ago

Actually owning your laptop instead of being locked in a garden/prison managed by a soulless corporation is a must for me. macOS is open. Notably MBP benefits don't matter much you're using your laptop as a mobile workstation. People love to boast about Mac's batter life, but my Framework is set in BIOS to 60% of max battery life because 95% of the time it's standing on a stand, plugged to an external screen and keyboard&mouse. As a developer I need a proper chair, split keyboard, good posture, if I want to make it to the old age with this lifestyle. Laptop form factor is for this 5% of the time when I want/need to work from somewhere else than my desk. If battery life doesn't matter to you, then surely speed does right? M4 Pro is roughly 56% faster in ST and about the same in MT. Also, if you're a developer there's a lot of perf loss and impedance mismatch with Linux ecosystem (like x86_64 emulation) on Mac. Even after emulation, Apple Silicon is often still faster. The fastest Windows laptop is actually an M4 Max running Parallels. So Framework is kind of a Linux dev go to machine ATM. Different priorities. For others ... yeah... a nice appliance like MBP might be a better choice. Agreed. I think most people prefer macOS as a dev OS to Linux. Oh, and the biggest advantage, is that I can replace a lot of stuff and not need to lose my stickers! Framework's parts are known to be very expensive. It's probably cheaper to simply sell your Apple Silicon laptop (which always has high resale value) and simply buy a new one.

ilioscio 2y ago
I think it's great that Apple continues to bring powerful hardware to market but their software quality has fallen behind, laggy performance issues and fewer and fewer devs building for macOS due to Apple's oppressive package signing policies. If I had to choose between slightly less powerful hardware (who cares?) and having replaceable and upgradable parts I'm gonna choose that every time. Upgrading between macbooks is more expensive than upgrading between Framework models. Also what do you mean by 'macOS is open' in what regard is it open?
- aurareturn 2y ago
  M4 Pro is 56% faster in single thread while being 3.6x more efficient. Thats not “slightly”. Thats generations behind.
  - ilioscio 2y ago
    And if that 56% faster chip didn't exist, or if it were replaced tomorrow by an even better chip that doesn't mean I need it to do my work. I don't see why I should chase benchmarks anymore if it doesn't give me any new real benefits, and the vision and execution behind macOS as an ecosystem doesn't seem to be getting any better