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A. Juries can be overruled; and in cases like this, they historically arguably would have been. B. The judge imposing $473 million is ludicrous by itself. C.

A. Juries can be overruled; and in cases like this, they historically arguably would have been. B. The judge imposing $473 million is ludicrous by itself. C. Even if Jones was not complaint, consider my “marijuana in the park” example. If a guy smokes marijuana publicly, someone smells it, they sue, the guy doesn’t follow orders and lies - does the lack of compliance mean that mean the court can impose $20, $50, $100 million? No. It is still not proportionate to the crime. D. Unless you can prove he directly forced his followers into an action, believe me, I don’t think you want me killing someone, then having you be sued because I found one violent comment from you that “incited” me. Especially if that someone has authority, a judge or maybe a president. Citing you as my inspiration because you vented on a Thursday afternoon shouldn’t make you personally liable for $200 million.

dragonwriter 2y ago
> Juries can be overruled; A judge can issue a judgement nothwithstanding a verdict only of no reasonable jury could have reached the verdict on the ecidence presented, given the applicable (in this case,as is generally the case in civil cases, “preponderance of the evidence”) standard of proof. That's a very easy standard of proof to meet when only one side presents evidence. Play stupid (intentional default) games, win stupid (larger civil verdict than you would have with even a minimal defense) prizes. > The judge imposing $473 million is ludicrous by itself. Based on US Supreme Court precedent, depending on wilfullness of the conduct and othee specifics of the circumstances (which, based on what was before the judge to consider, it is reasonable to find that even the outer limit was met), punitive damages can be reasonable up to a single digit multiple of actual damages. Here, the punitive damages were around half the actual damages What's your basis for claiming that the punitive award is unreasonable? > Even if Jones was not complaint, compliant my “marijuana in the park” example. What about it? The example fails to be analogous and is irrelevant; it obscures rather than illistrates whatever argument you are trying to make with it, as does whatever that sentence abusing “compliant” and “complaint” above is.
reverendsteveii 2y ago
A is meaningless. Juries can be overruled but that provides no reasoning as to why this one should be other than vague handwaves in the direction of historicity that even you feel the need to caveat with the word "arguably". If it's arguable, argue it. B is sort of begging the question. You start by saying the award is too much and your proof is just you saying the award is too much a second time. As far as C goes, yes, eventually. But a more accurate example would be a guy selling marijuana to thousands of people and then telling them over and over again despite multiple court orders to go smoke it in the park. For D, again, we're dealing with direct incitement of illegal behavior. Not "someone should kill that guy" but "you need to go kill that guy right now" and again you're ignoring the context of multiple cease and desist orders that were willfully defied. A court system whose only answer to defiance is politely asking a second time is not a court system.

dragonwriter 2y ago

> Juries can be overruled; A judge can issue a judgement nothwithstanding a verdict only of no reasonable jury could have reached the verdict on the ecidence presented, given the applicable (in this case,as is generally the case in civil cases, “preponderance of the evidence”) standard of proof. That's a very easy standard of proof to meet when only one side presents evidence. Play stupid (intentional default) games, win stupid (larger civil verdict than you would have with even a minimal defense) prizes. > The judge imposing $473 million is ludicrous by itself. Based on US Supreme Court precedent, depending on wilfullness of the conduct and othee specifics of the circumstances (which, based on what was before the judge to consider, it is reasonable to find that even the outer limit was met), punitive damages can be reasonable up to a single digit multiple of actual damages. Here, the punitive damages were around half the actual damages What's your basis for claiming that the punitive award is unreasonable? > Even if Jones was not complaint, compliant my “marijuana in the park” example. What about it? The example fails to be analogous and is irrelevant; it obscures rather than illistrates whatever argument you are trying to make with it, as does whatever that sentence abusing “compliant” and “complaint” above is.

reverendsteveii 2y ago

A is meaningless. Juries can be overruled but that provides no reasoning as to why this one should be other than vague handwaves in the direction of historicity that even you feel the need to caveat with the word "arguably". If it's arguable, argue it. B is sort of begging the question. You start by saying the award is too much and your proof is just you saying the award is too much a second time. As far as C goes, yes, eventually. But a more accurate example would be a guy selling marijuana to thousands of people and then telling them over and over again despite multiple court orders to go smoke it in the park. For D, again, we're dealing with direct incitement of illegal behavior. Not "someone should kill that guy" but "you need to go kill that guy right now" and again you're ignoring the context of multiple cease and desist orders that were willfully defied. A court system whose only answer to defiance is politely asking a second time is not a court system.