3 ms·

And this alone is why they are worth it for Apple. Modems are speed limited by networks which evolve on a MUCH slower timescale Qualcomm has to sell faster and

by nimish 2y ago

And this alone is why they are worth it for Apple. Modems are speed limited by networks which evolve on a MUCH slower timescale Qualcomm has to sell faster and faster modems but apple can optimize for what we actually care about

xnx 2y ago
> are phone modems a key source of security issues Cellular models are also a common exploit vector: https://security.googleblog.com/2024/10/pixel-proactive-security-cellular-modems.html https://security.googleblog.com/2024/10/pixel-proactive-secu...
- nicce 2y ago
  Maybe the phone does not matter that much: https://cellularsecurity.org/ransacked.html https://cellularsecurity.org/ransacked.html
jillesvangurp 2y ago
The other bigger reason why they are doing this is that it removes having to deal with licensing and using any Qualcomm provided firmware & hardware designs. It doesn't quite free them from having to license any patents probably. But other than that, they no longer have to deal with anything Qualcomm on the critical path to shipping hardware & software. Depending on what their patent licensing with Qualcomm looks like, this also might free them up to embed 5G capabilities in just about any other device they have that isn't a phone. Combined with soft sims, there's no need for sim card slots even. Think laptops, vr goggles, apple tv's, watches, etc. That stuff is/was mostly blocked on licensing and Qualcomm taking a cut; and only partially on power requirements. I wouldn't be surprised to see the C1 in some future mac books. In fact I'd be surprised if that didn't happen. Some Chinese phone companies like Huawei have been doing similar things and use their own chips rather than Qualcomm provided ones and of course the whole notion of Qualcomm enforcing their patents in China is not much of a thing. It will be interesting to see what happens with 6G and beyond. That will be the first standard where Qualcomm has to compete with multiple competitors competing on quality and features. Apple won't wait for them to do whatever. And likewise, companies like Ericsson/Nokia might start talking directly to Apple about making sure their network infrastructure works great with IOS.
lxgr 2y ago
> Modems are speed limited by networks which evolve on a MUCH slower timescale While true, at some point networks do catch up, and many people hang on to their phones for several years at this point. If that's the case, whether having a better modem makes a difference in the end depends on which dimension of "faster" you're looking at: Just using more and more Hz of spectrum on a single device does indeed not help anything other than peak speeds in empty cells (something I personally don't care about in the slightest in a phone), but being able to deliver more bit/Hz/s (through spatial multiplexing, better beamforming etc.) does eventually benefit everyone in congested/spectrum-limited situations.

by nimish 2y ago

xnx 2y ago

> are phone modems a key source of security issues Cellular models are also a common exploit vector: https://security.googleblog.com/2024/10/pixel-proactive-security-cellular-modems.html https://security.googleblog.com/2024/10/pixel-proactive-secu...

nicce 2y ago
Maybe the phone does not matter that much: https://cellularsecurity.org/ransacked.html https://cellularsecurity.org/ransacked.html

jillesvangurp 2y ago

The other bigger reason why they are doing this is that it removes having to deal with licensing and using any Qualcomm provided firmware & hardware designs. It doesn't quite free them from having to license any patents probably. But other than that, they no longer have to deal with anything Qualcomm on the critical path to shipping hardware & software. Depending on what their patent licensing with Qualcomm looks like, this also might free them up to embed 5G capabilities in just about any other device they have that isn't a phone. Combined with soft sims, there's no need for sim card slots even. Think laptops, vr goggles, apple tv's, watches, etc. That stuff is/was mostly blocked on licensing and Qualcomm taking a cut; and only partially on power requirements. I wouldn't be surprised to see the C1 in some future mac books. In fact I'd be surprised if that didn't happen. Some Chinese phone companies like Huawei have been doing similar things and use their own chips rather than Qualcomm provided ones and of course the whole notion of Qualcomm enforcing their patents in China is not much of a thing. It will be interesting to see what happens with 6G and beyond. That will be the first standard where Qualcomm has to compete with multiple competitors competing on quality and features. Apple won't wait for them to do whatever. And likewise, companies like Ericsson/Nokia might start talking directly to Apple about making sure their network infrastructure works great with IOS.

lxgr 2y ago

> Modems are speed limited by networks which evolve on a MUCH slower timescale While true, at some point networks do catch up, and many people hang on to their phones for several years at this point. If that's the case, whether having a better modem makes a difference in the end depends on which dimension of "faster" you're looking at: Just using more and more Hz of spectrum on a single device does indeed not help anything other than peak speeds in empty cells (something I personally don't care about in the slightest in a phone), but being able to deliver more bit/Hz/s (through spatial multiplexing, better beamforming etc.) does eventually benefit everyone in congested/spectrum-limited situations.