4 ms·

when i was young i used to think that employers want smart, creative and innovative person because of capitalism. I found out pretty quick that they want a yes

when i was young i used to think that employers want smart, creative and innovative person because of capitalism. I found out pretty quick that they want a yes man who always says yes to their superiors ideas and makes their superior look like a hero at every opportunity. There is literally no other secret to working in a corporate.

ebiederm 2y ago
Yeah, no. That attitude is just giving up. There are companies and bosses that know how to value employees contributions. I have heard it referred to as herding cats. There are situations that are not good. Sometimes it is intentional when they have decided they want someone out. Sometimes the boss as you say only wants as yes man. Sometimes there are good intentions and without the needed skill.
- ibejoeb 2y ago
  There are realities to contend with, though. In corporate, unless someone directs a budget, the organization hasn't really issued any endorsement. Most companies are just churning rather than breaking new ground, so they value consistency.
- apwell23 2y ago
  giving up what? I've made progress in my career being a suck up. I never contradict my superiors. Even the stuff i come up with i make it look like it was originally their "vision" that led to it. I always convince someone above to put their name as primary author on my proposals at work. This extremely simple "trick" has always led to me getting more money and promotions at work. Its not a joke.
ThrowawayR2 2y ago
Start your own business. Then you will learn that your subordinates who are "smart, creative, and innovative" that aren't helping you get done what you need to have done are more hassle than they're worth. Alignment isn't just a concept that applies to AI.
- azemetre 2y ago
  Telling everyone to "start" their own business is hilariously out of touch. This is something the vast majority of people cannot do. You're better off telling people to feel solidarity with their fellow workers, collectively organize, and collectively bargain through unions. That is something more easily done.
  - OutOfHere 2y ago
    That was more true before AI. In this day and age of AI, developing a business is easier than ever thanks to AI assistance at almost every step.
    - azemetre 2y ago
      I have a family member that is 70 years old, social security is enough to barely pay for their mortgage. They have been trying to get any job for the last 5 years but haven't been able to, most likely due to age discrimination. They're alive but I wouldn't call it a life worth living, more like subsisting. If they didn't know me they would likely be homeless but since I can help with a few bills they aren't losing their home and can get 3 meals a day. How can this person start a company with AI? Honestly. Your suggestion is devoid from reality for tens of millions of people. It feels like a troll because it's devoid of any empathy.
      - OutOfHere 2y ago
        You seem to have no concept of a retirement age. A person of 70 years old is not supposed to be working at all, although light part time work can be okay. Starting a company using AI still requires significant innovative skills, and is not even for the random 20 or 30 or 40 year old. It requires offering a competitive service or product that no one else offers. AI is never a substitute for putting your brain and body to work in clever ways that others don't. The only troll here is you for letting working age people rot in jobs that they will bring them to their knees in their retirement age.
t43562 2y ago
I read this book about a defector from the GRU https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquarium_(Suvorov) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquarium_(Suvorov) I can't remember the exact quote but his suggestion was that everyone needed a "sponsor" or patron above them and that patrons chose people who would otherwise not be successful. This way the patron had a number of junior protogees who owed them everything. When your patron rose up you would rise up. I noticed this in at least one company that got into trouble eventually. In others the yes man culture is very potent. Where I am now nothing is that bad.
- ThrowawayR2 2y ago
  There's a name for that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoils_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoils_system .
corytheboyd 2y ago
Well you’re sort of right, in that yeah, duh, you need your boss to like you to get promoted. If you are a very capable person, it won’t take long before you are looked up to for answers, which is where this attitude of “only doing what the boss wants to hear” falls apart, because, boss is depending on YOUR voice now. It’s not the end of the world if you plateau here, plenty of people do. Personally, while I too think corporate world is rife with idiocy, I’ve learned to largely detach from it. Constant negativity is mildly cathartic at best, and yet, it will burn you out very quickly. You are not on to some “secret” here, all who participate in corporate work know it’s ridiculous. Seriously, open up a bit, and get to know some of these “terrible bosses” outside of work— they will shit talk with you like anyone else. This falls apart around the VP layer, as from there up it’s actually insane people living in a different wealth reality than ours.

ebiederm 2y ago

Yeah, no. That attitude is just giving up. There are companies and bosses that know how to value employees contributions. I have heard it referred to as herding cats. There are situations that are not good. Sometimes it is intentional when they have decided they want someone out. Sometimes the boss as you say only wants as yes man. Sometimes there are good intentions and without the needed skill.

ibejoeb 2y ago
There are realities to contend with, though. In corporate, unless someone directs a budget, the organization hasn't really issued any endorsement. Most companies are just churning rather than breaking new ground, so they value consistency.
apwell23 2y ago
giving up what? I've made progress in my career being a suck up. I never contradict my superiors. Even the stuff i come up with i make it look like it was originally their "vision" that led to it. I always convince someone above to put their name as primary author on my proposals at work. This extremely simple "trick" has always led to me getting more money and promotions at work. Its not a joke.

ThrowawayR2 2y ago

Start your own business. Then you will learn that your subordinates who are "smart, creative, and innovative" that aren't helping you get done what you need to have done are more hassle than they're worth. Alignment isn't just a concept that applies to AI.

azemetre 2y ago
Telling everyone to "start" their own business is hilariously out of touch. This is something the vast majority of people cannot do. You're better off telling people to feel solidarity with their fellow workers, collectively organize, and collectively bargain through unions. That is something more easily done.
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  That was more true before AI. In this day and age of AI, developing a business is easier than ever thanks to AI assistance at almost every step.
  - azemetre 2y ago
    I have a family member that is 70 years old, social security is enough to barely pay for their mortgage. They have been trying to get any job for the last 5 years but haven't been able to, most likely due to age discrimination. They're alive but I wouldn't call it a life worth living, more like subsisting. If they didn't know me they would likely be homeless but since I can help with a few bills they aren't losing their home and can get 3 meals a day. How can this person start a company with AI? Honestly. Your suggestion is devoid from reality for tens of millions of people. It feels like a troll because it's devoid of any empathy.
    - OutOfHere 2y ago
      You seem to have no concept of a retirement age. A person of 70 years old is not supposed to be working at all, although light part time work can be okay. Starting a company using AI still requires significant innovative skills, and is not even for the random 20 or 30 or 40 year old. It requires offering a competitive service or product that no one else offers. AI is never a substitute for putting your brain and body to work in clever ways that others don't. The only troll here is you for letting working age people rot in jobs that they will bring them to their knees in their retirement age.

t43562 2y ago

I read this book about a defector from the GRU https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquarium_(Suvorov) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquarium_(Suvorov) I can't remember the exact quote but his suggestion was that everyone needed a "sponsor" or patron above them and that patrons chose people who would otherwise not be successful. This way the patron had a number of junior protogees who owed them everything. When your patron rose up you would rise up. I noticed this in at least one company that got into trouble eventually. In others the yes man culture is very potent. Where I am now nothing is that bad.

ThrowawayR2 2y ago
There's a name for that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoils_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoils_system .

corytheboyd 2y ago

Well you’re sort of right, in that yeah, duh, you need your boss to like you to get promoted. If you are a very capable person, it won’t take long before you are looked up to for answers, which is where this attitude of “only doing what the boss wants to hear” falls apart, because, boss is depending on YOUR voice now. It’s not the end of the world if you plateau here, plenty of people do. Personally, while I too think corporate world is rife with idiocy, I’ve learned to largely detach from it. Constant negativity is mildly cathartic at best, and yet, it will burn you out very quickly. You are not on to some “secret” here, all who participate in corporate work know it’s ridiculous. Seriously, open up a bit, and get to know some of these “terrible bosses” outside of work— they will shit talk with you like anyone else. This falls apart around the VP layer, as from there up it’s actually insane people living in a different wealth reality than ours.