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> People need their things Sorry but I completely disagree, People lived for thousands of years before warehouses. People dont need 'stuff' - that is a fabrica

by alt227 2y ago

> People need their things Sorry but I completely disagree, People lived for thousands of years before warehouses. People dont need 'stuff' - that is a fabrication by capitalism to make you buy more stuff. Housing, and specifically affordable housing for lower income people, is infinitely more required than more commercial warehouses built to ship people more Chinese rubbish.

bluGill 2y ago
People lived poorly for thousands of years. The large majority didn't live to see 5 years old (those who did had the heartbreak of seeing their own children not living that long). Many women died in childbirth. Many people starved to death in a drought year. Specific to this article, many of those who survived lost their teeth because they didn't have toothpaste. Yes the world does need to do something about lower income people. However because of the above low income people today have a higher standard of living than the richest of 200 year ago. (though the rich then did have some luxuries that even the richest today consider only a dream).
- alt227 2y ago
  Apologies, but I fail to see how your post has anything to so with Amazon warehouses using drones to deliver stuff. > Many women died in childbirth. Many people starved to death in a drought year. Specific to this article, many of those who survived lost their teeth because they didn't have toothpaste. Personally I would say that advances in science and healthcare has helped these things, not capitalist corporations with big warehouses unnecesarily shipping consumer products around the world.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    did those advances in science and health care happen in a vacuum? In some system outside of capitalism where the doctors and scientists weren't supported by being able to buy consumer products in a store? Did the doctoring not happen with the benefit of, say scaples and medication getting put onto trucks and shipped to a warehouse and then distributed to hospitals and clinics?
    - GuinansEyebrows 2y ago
      Most of those advances are a result of government funding.
      - fragmede 2y ago
        Absolutely! Not sure where I said corporations deserve all the credit for modern society.
      - bluGill 2y ago
        The government only had enough surplus to extract from the population because of capitalism.
    - alt227 2y ago
      > Did the doctoring not happen with the benefit of, say, scaples and medication getting put onto trucks and shipped to a warehouse and then distributed to hospitals and clinics Umm no? In 1600BC when the Egyptians were first performing autopsies and writing about the human anatomy, they were not ordering scalpels off Amazon. When Aristotle first identified the difference between arteries and veins in 4th Century BC, I doubt he got his magnifying lenses shipped next day from a warehouse. When Leonardo da Vinci made his incredible drawings of the human skeleton and mapped out the human anatomy for the first time in 1510, I dont think he needed to sign a drivers delivery note for his pencils and paper. I think you need to step back a little bit and take a good look at what you are arguing. I am no longer going to reply to this nonsense. Thanks for the fun!
    - coliveira 2y ago
      Look at the state of health care in Cuba for a different perspective.
      - bluGill 2y ago
        Cuba benefits from a lot of the advances done elsewhere. They are not standing alone, but standing on the shoulders of giants (just like everyone else). They don't have everything we have elsewhere, but they have a lot of it and so there are only a few gaps to attempt to fill in.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Capitalism provided the necessary wealth to enable those advancements. Sure there were a few in history, but a few people doing investigation doesn't advance nearly as fast as we have been for the last several hundred years. Without capitalism we wouldn't even be able to support the world population and thus would have less surplus to put into science. Yes we did have science before, but capitalism was what provided it in more than tiny amounts.
fragmede 2y ago
Are these low income people completely naked and bereft of any physical objects? Are they going to eat air? Ignoring the Amazon warehouse, where do you want the food packinghouse to exist? Do these low income people need jobs?
- alt227 2y ago
  You seem to have the opinion that every person on the planet should be working in corporate warehouses and be very happy for that fact, otherwise they would effectively be dead. Where I live people have jobs like forester, woodcutter, blacksmith, teacher, doctor, farmer, builders, painters etc. People often do work for somebody else, in return for their services back. Lots of service is provided on a trade basis instead on via money. People working in commercial warehouses for big companies is a relatively new thing, and it causes most people who do it great unhappiness. Do you genuinely believe that only the possibility of a world exists where people have to slave all day for big corporations in factories and warehouses?
  - fragmede 2y ago
    Sure, we can frame all of humanity since the 1760's, when the first industrial revolution happened as a relatively recent phenomenom. > You seem to have the opinion that every person on the planet should be working in corporate warehouses and be very happy for that fact, otherwise they would effectively be dead. I'm not sure how you got that from what I wrote.
    - alt227 2y ago
      Current evidence shows humans have been around on Earth for about 300,000 years. Corporate companies with warehouses have been around for about 200 years. So yes, warehouses are a relatively recent thing. The majority of human societal development happened before then.
- vel0city 2y ago
  The meat packing house nearby isn't sending chainsaws over my head every 58 seconds. Neither are all the other manufacturing plants within a few miles of my home. Neither are all the commercial office buildings with lots of office jobs. Seems there's a lot of places for people to work that aren't involved in massive noise pollution over my home every minute.

by alt227 2y ago

bluGill 2y ago

People lived poorly for thousands of years. The large majority didn't live to see 5 years old (those who did had the heartbreak of seeing their own children not living that long). Many women died in childbirth. Many people starved to death in a drought year. Specific to this article, many of those who survived lost their teeth because they didn't have toothpaste. Yes the world does need to do something about lower income people. However because of the above low income people today have a higher standard of living than the richest of 200 year ago. (though the rich then did have some luxuries that even the richest today consider only a dream).

alt227 2y ago
Apologies, but I fail to see how your post has anything to so with Amazon warehouses using drones to deliver stuff. > Many women died in childbirth. Many people starved to death in a drought year. Specific to this article, many of those who survived lost their teeth because they didn't have toothpaste. Personally I would say that advances in science and healthcare has helped these things, not capitalist corporations with big warehouses unnecesarily shipping consumer products around the world.
- fragmede 2y ago
  did those advances in science and health care happen in a vacuum? In some system outside of capitalism where the doctors and scientists weren't supported by being able to buy consumer products in a store? Did the doctoring not happen with the benefit of, say scaples and medication getting put onto trucks and shipped to a warehouse and then distributed to hospitals and clinics?
  - GuinansEyebrows 2y ago
    Most of those advances are a result of government funding.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      Absolutely! Not sure where I said corporations deserve all the credit for modern society.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      The government only had enough surplus to extract from the population because of capitalism.
  - alt227 2y ago
    > Did the doctoring not happen with the benefit of, say, scaples and medication getting put onto trucks and shipped to a warehouse and then distributed to hospitals and clinics Umm no? In 1600BC when the Egyptians were first performing autopsies and writing about the human anatomy, they were not ordering scalpels off Amazon. When Aristotle first identified the difference between arteries and veins in 4th Century BC, I doubt he got his magnifying lenses shipped next day from a warehouse. When Leonardo da Vinci made his incredible drawings of the human skeleton and mapped out the human anatomy for the first time in 1510, I dont think he needed to sign a drivers delivery note for his pencils and paper. I think you need to step back a little bit and take a good look at what you are arguing. I am no longer going to reply to this nonsense. Thanks for the fun!
  - coliveira 2y ago
    Look at the state of health care in Cuba for a different perspective.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      Cuba benefits from a lot of the advances done elsewhere. They are not standing alone, but standing on the shoulders of giants (just like everyone else). They don't have everything we have elsewhere, but they have a lot of it and so there are only a few gaps to attempt to fill in.
- bluGill 2y ago
  Capitalism provided the necessary wealth to enable those advancements. Sure there were a few in history, but a few people doing investigation doesn't advance nearly as fast as we have been for the last several hundred years. Without capitalism we wouldn't even be able to support the world population and thus would have less surplus to put into science. Yes we did have science before, but capitalism was what provided it in more than tiny amounts.

fragmede 2y ago

Are these low income people completely naked and bereft of any physical objects? Are they going to eat air? Ignoring the Amazon warehouse, where do you want the food packinghouse to exist? Do these low income people need jobs?

alt227 2y ago
You seem to have the opinion that every person on the planet should be working in corporate warehouses and be very happy for that fact, otherwise they would effectively be dead. Where I live people have jobs like forester, woodcutter, blacksmith, teacher, doctor, farmer, builders, painters etc. People often do work for somebody else, in return for their services back. Lots of service is provided on a trade basis instead on via money. People working in commercial warehouses for big companies is a relatively new thing, and it causes most people who do it great unhappiness. Do you genuinely believe that only the possibility of a world exists where people have to slave all day for big corporations in factories and warehouses?
- fragmede 2y ago
  Sure, we can frame all of humanity since the 1760's, when the first industrial revolution happened as a relatively recent phenomenom. > You seem to have the opinion that every person on the planet should be working in corporate warehouses and be very happy for that fact, otherwise they would effectively be dead. I'm not sure how you got that from what I wrote.
  - alt227 2y ago
    Current evidence shows humans have been around on Earth for about 300,000 years. Corporate companies with warehouses have been around for about 200 years. So yes, warehouses are a relatively recent thing. The majority of human societal development happened before then.
vel0city 2y ago
The meat packing house nearby isn't sending chainsaws over my head every 58 seconds. Neither are all the other manufacturing plants within a few miles of my home. Neither are all the commercial office buildings with lots of office jobs. Seems there's a lot of places for people to work that aren't involved in massive noise pollution over my home every minute.