9 ms·

This isn't a personal attack. It's an observation. I sincerely lack a better way to characterize Craig's behavior. Since Craigslist is as small as it is and is

This isn't a personal attack. It's an observation. I sincerely lack a better way to characterize Craig's behavior. Since Craigslist is as small as it is and is named after the founder, it's very difficult to explain these seemingly irrational decisions without understanding the man behind them. I think at heart he's a good guy, but he's clearly not thinking correctly here.

ericd 14y ago
Hi Jeremy, thanks for writing about this. I actually think Craig has removed himself from the decision-making there, which probably explains the seeming conflict between his personality and the company's.
- samstave 14y ago
  And it conveniently provides plausible deniability. Regardless, it's craigs list and he can never be removed from us outsiders mentally connecting him with what CL does.
  - ericd 14y ago
    Yeah, I guess it might take a name change to get people to stop assuming that Craig is in charge.
    - MaysonL 14y ago
      He's in charge: he owns the place.
- jeremymims 14y ago
  That's possible. However, if that's the case, I'm surprised Craig hasn't engaged at all on this issue. It would seem an awful lot of lousy stuff is happening in his name.
  - ericd 14y ago
    Yeah, I'm not sure why neither of them have been willing to talk, I think a lot of this could be sorted out really quickly without the lawyers.
    - res0nat0r 14y ago
      I think it is easily sorted out without the lawyers...stop using CL data on Padmapper. Problem solved. :)
waterlesscloud 14y ago
Not thinking correctly? Or not thinking the way you think he should?
- slantyyz 14y ago
  If someone told me that I was a principled jerk for not thinking the way they think, I'd ask "who's really the principled jerk here?"
flatline3 14y ago
This kind of diatribe -- along with the PadMapper debacle -- simply makes the participants look like naive entitled children. You don't understand why Craig won't play in your sandbox, berate him for not doing so, shout at the world that CRAIG IS A MEANIE. Yet, Craigslist is phenomenally successful, and has an enviable organization model that has allowed them to stay true to what matters to them. The fact that these things don't matter to you does not make them wrong. Craigslist has a "lifestyle" business with revenue numbers that would make any startup green with envy, and it seems to me that you -- and others like you -- can't get your head around the fact that Craig (and Craigslist) is so successful, and yet they do not want to play your game. If you think Craigslist sucks, then either make a better one, or figure out how to work with Craigslist within a framework that does not run counter to their established ethos. That probably means no venture capital, and no standard corporate organizational model. Simply taking what you want -- or haranguing them openly for not operating the way you would like -- is simply childish petulance.
- jbooth 14y ago
  The point is that, due to network effects and first-mover advantage, it's way harder to displace craigslist than building a better product. Now, that's not illegal on craig/craigslist's part, but he can either be an openness-advocating philanthropreneur, as he tends to brand himself, or he can be a lockdown value extractor with a legal team, as it seems they're on their way to becoming. Can't be both.
  - vampirechicken 14y ago
    Oh, boo hoo! He did the hard work. He earned the first mover advantage. Go be disruptive without being a thief. Make a compelling product that steals his users, not his data.
  - flatline3 14y ago
    > Now, that's not illegal on craig/craigslist's part, but he can either be an openness-advocating philanthropreneur, as he tends to brand himself, or he can be a lockdown value extractor with a legal team, as it seems they're on their way to becoming. Can't be both. So say The Police Of Moral Rectitude? I don't really see the point here. Craigslist isn't actively harming the industry, they're just running their own businesses. How they choose to do so is their own concern, and they have no obligation to give their business away to people that want to replace them.
mikeryan 14y ago
I actually find CL's actions entirely rational. A business is about building value and services such as pad mapper decrease that value. Its easy to say PadMapper is just an overlay on top of Craigslist data - but its not. PadMapper aggregates data from other providers and in fact allows users to post to it directly. If I owned PadMapper my business plan would be to leech listings from all over the place in an effort to grab traffic to the point where people use my service (and pay to list there) first. Isn't that the goal? CL doesn't want these types of services to build their market on the backs of the value they've created for their customers (people who post) and their audience.

ericd 14y ago

Hi Jeremy, thanks for writing about this. I actually think Craig has removed himself from the decision-making there, which probably explains the seeming conflict between his personality and the company's.

samstave 14y ago
And it conveniently provides plausible deniability. Regardless, it's craigs list and he can never be removed from us outsiders mentally connecting him with what CL does.
- ericd 14y ago
  Yeah, I guess it might take a name change to get people to stop assuming that Craig is in charge.
  - MaysonL 14y ago
    He's in charge: he owns the place.
jeremymims 14y ago
That's possible. However, if that's the case, I'm surprised Craig hasn't engaged at all on this issue. It would seem an awful lot of lousy stuff is happening in his name.
- ericd 14y ago
  Yeah, I'm not sure why neither of them have been willing to talk, I think a lot of this could be sorted out really quickly without the lawyers.
  - res0nat0r 14y ago
    I think it is easily sorted out without the lawyers...stop using CL data on Padmapper. Problem solved. :)

waterlesscloud 14y ago

Not thinking correctly? Or not thinking the way you think he should?

slantyyz 14y ago
If someone told me that I was a principled jerk for not thinking the way they think, I'd ask "who's really the principled jerk here?"

flatline3 14y ago

This kind of diatribe -- along with the PadMapper debacle -- simply makes the participants look like naive entitled children. You don't understand why Craig won't play in your sandbox, berate him for not doing so, shout at the world that CRAIG IS A MEANIE. Yet, Craigslist is phenomenally successful, and has an enviable organization model that has allowed them to stay true to what matters to them. The fact that these things don't matter to you does not make them wrong. Craigslist has a "lifestyle" business with revenue numbers that would make any startup green with envy, and it seems to me that you -- and others like you -- can't get your head around the fact that Craig (and Craigslist) is so successful, and yet they do not want to play your game. If you think Craigslist sucks, then either make a better one, or figure out how to work with Craigslist within a framework that does not run counter to their established ethos. That probably means no venture capital, and no standard corporate organizational model. Simply taking what you want -- or haranguing them openly for not operating the way you would like -- is simply childish petulance.

jbooth 14y ago
The point is that, due to network effects and first-mover advantage, it's way harder to displace craigslist than building a better product. Now, that's not illegal on craig/craigslist's part, but he can either be an openness-advocating philanthropreneur, as he tends to brand himself, or he can be a lockdown value extractor with a legal team, as it seems they're on their way to becoming. Can't be both.
- vampirechicken 14y ago
  Oh, boo hoo! He did the hard work. He earned the first mover advantage. Go be disruptive without being a thief. Make a compelling product that steals his users, not his data.
- flatline3 14y ago
  > Now, that's not illegal on craig/craigslist's part, but he can either be an openness-advocating philanthropreneur, as he tends to brand himself, or he can be a lockdown value extractor with a legal team, as it seems they're on their way to becoming. Can't be both. So say The Police Of Moral Rectitude? I don't really see the point here. Craigslist isn't actively harming the industry, they're just running their own businesses. How they choose to do so is their own concern, and they have no obligation to give their business away to people that want to replace them.

mikeryan 14y ago

I actually find CL's actions entirely rational. A business is about building value and services such as pad mapper decrease that value. Its easy to say PadMapper is just an overlay on top of Craigslist data - but its not. PadMapper aggregates data from other providers and in fact allows users to post to it directly. If I owned PadMapper my business plan would be to leech listings from all over the place in an effort to grab traffic to the point where people use my service (and pay to list there) first. Isn't that the goal? CL doesn't want these types of services to build their market on the backs of the value they've created for their customers (people who post) and their audience.