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> We're literally on the verge of collapsing > because of climate change and mass extinction We're really not, and that's not me being a climate change den

by avar 2y ago

> We're literally on the verge of collapsing > because of climate change and mass extinction We're really not, and that's not me being a climate change denier, but deferring to the UN's IPCC reports on the topic. I encourage you to read the reports. Yes, we're in some trouble, but even their bleakest predictions are nowhere near "collapse". > Robots are not solving any of those problems. How many of these people getting toothpaste or whatever delivered by electrically powered drone would alternatively be firing up their dinosaur-powered F-150 to drive to the local supermarket instead? It's solving that problem.

JKCalhoun 2y ago
> How many of these people getting toothpaste or whatever delivered by electrically powered drone would alternatively be firing up their dinosaur-powered F-150 to drive to the local supermarket instead? We can be outraged about both.
- fragmede 2y ago
  How do you suggest toothpaste should occur in the real world? I can only go to the store with my electric vehicle which uses organically mined lithium in its batteries, charged by free trade manufacturered solar panels? To get toothpaste which hasn't been tested on animals (only humans) made up of chemicals that don't use any "bad" chemicals?
  - alt227 2y ago
    You seem to think that everything you do requires buying a commercial product, with no alternatives. That is the success of the capitalist advertising industry. It really isnt as hard as you think to live a low impact life without buying more stuff to help you do it. Personally I walk or cycle to the store, and buy toothpaste that is made from zero chemicals and is packaged in 100% recycled materials. If you want to go further than that, then before companies started convincing people that they needed to buy toothpaste, people used crushed charcoal from their fires alonog with mint leaves for freshness. Free, no transportation required, and just as effective, if not more so. I am very happy to subscribe to this kind of lifestyle in order to reduce human impact on a global scale. Are you?
    - fragmede 2y ago
      I try and live a low impact lifestyle. I reuse, drive an old ICE car sparingly, I buy more expensive stuff that lasts instead of cheaper disposable stuff when I can, I recycle, I compost. I'm just not pretentious about it, and have no illusions about where my food comes from.
      - alt227 2y ago
        > Who doesn't want their Amazon packages delivered sooner? If I could get my packages today, instead of two days later, and there's just this humming noise outside because of it? > I try and live a low impact lifestyle Personally I would say that these 2 statements contradict each other.
        fragmede 2y ago
        I'm not the one who can't handle the fact that advancements in medicine that have happened since Aristotle come hand in hand with the industrial revolution and capitalism.
        alt227 2y ago
        No you are the one denying that the majority of our knowledge of the human anamtomy came from before that period, and that it was entirely possible without corporations delivering us truckloads of stuff from warehouses to make it happen. Feel free to educate yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_anatomy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_anatomy > I'm not the one who can't handle Now that you have turned into making this personal, I will exit. Feel free to reply with whatever makes you feel best.
        fragmede 2y ago
        Where did I say that Aristotle wasn't a foundational scientist? it's just that we're not at CRISPR and mRNA vaccines without the rest of modern society.
      - 2y ago
  - piva00 2y ago
    Electric vehicle? Damn, that's unimaginative... Use your legs: walk or bike.
  - JKCalhoun 2y ago
    I hope no one is driving to a grocery store just to pick up one tube of toothpaste.
lm28469 2y ago
> How many of these people getting toothpaste or whatever delivered by electrically powered drone would alternatively be firing up their dinosaur-powered F-150 to drive to the local supermarket instead? Why do you want to solve the last symptom in the long chain of failure upon failure, by adding on more atrocity in the mix ? If I want toothpaste I walk 250 meters to my closest shop and buy some damn toothpaste
- spongebobstoes 2y ago
  Fixing that "long chain" requires rebuilding a majority of American cities, and relocating a large portion of American citizens. Sure, maybe it can be done incrementally. But it isn't being done very quickly or well, even in Seattle where I know folks are trying. Does solving those systemic, political, societal and human issues seem easier than building a quiet drone?
palata 2y ago
> but deferring to the UN's IPCC reports on the topic. I encourage you to read the reports. Did you actually read them? They say that in order to keep the temperature raise below 1.5/2deg, we essentially have to reduce the global economy by 1 covid crisis every year and find a miracle way to capture CO2 massively. So they really say "it's pretty bad". But that's not all! The IPCC reports require some kind of consensus and are notoriously optimistic! Every single year, what we observe (as in, we measure) is that the IPCC models were optimistic. Every. Single. Year. So the IPCC reports say "it's pretty bad", and this is optimistic! Finally, we are living a mass extinction right now. It's not a prediction, it's a measurable fact. Life on Earth is collapsing, already. Remember the dinosaurs? What got them extinct is the climate change that followed the asteroid, right? It was a lot slower than what we are measuring right now. So yeah... the only thing I can imagine could keep us alive where the dinosaurs (and most big animals) got extinct is technology. But you know what? Technology is globally adding to the problem! Again, not predictions but facts: every year with emit more CO2 thanks to the "progress" in technology. A lot of technology is getting better and requires less energy, but rebound effects completely cancel that progress. We are on the verge of collapsing, and at a time in history where we would need to be extremely smart and work together, the geopolitical instability is increasing by the day. Are we doomed? Probably. But if there is a chance we survive, what we need is to do less with less, but in a much more clever way. Lots of work for engineers and scientists, but not on AR headset or LLMs. For some reason nobody is interested in saving our arse, they'd rather try to get rich.

by avar 2y ago

JKCalhoun 2y ago

fragmede 2y ago
How do you suggest toothpaste should occur in the real world? I can only go to the store with my electric vehicle which uses organically mined lithium in its batteries, charged by free trade manufacturered solar panels? To get toothpaste which hasn't been tested on animals (only humans) made up of chemicals that don't use any "bad" chemicals?
- alt227 2y ago
  You seem to think that everything you do requires buying a commercial product, with no alternatives. That is the success of the capitalist advertising industry. It really isnt as hard as you think to live a low impact life without buying more stuff to help you do it. Personally I walk or cycle to the store, and buy toothpaste that is made from zero chemicals and is packaged in 100% recycled materials. If you want to go further than that, then before companies started convincing people that they needed to buy toothpaste, people used crushed charcoal from their fires alonog with mint leaves for freshness. Free, no transportation required, and just as effective, if not more so. I am very happy to subscribe to this kind of lifestyle in order to reduce human impact on a global scale. Are you?
  - fragmede 2y ago
    I try and live a low impact lifestyle. I reuse, drive an old ICE car sparingly, I buy more expensive stuff that lasts instead of cheaper disposable stuff when I can, I recycle, I compost. I'm just not pretentious about it, and have no illusions about where my food comes from.
    - alt227 2y ago
      > Who doesn't want their Amazon packages delivered sooner? If I could get my packages today, instead of two days later, and there's just this humming noise outside because of it? > I try and live a low impact lifestyle Personally I would say that these 2 statements contradict each other.
      - fragmede 2y ago
        I'm not the one who can't handle the fact that advancements in medicine that have happened since Aristotle come hand in hand with the industrial revolution and capitalism.
        alt227 2y ago
        No you are the one denying that the majority of our knowledge of the human anamtomy came from before that period, and that it was entirely possible without corporations delivering us truckloads of stuff from warehouses to make it happen. Feel free to educate yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_anatomy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_anatomy > I'm not the one who can't handle Now that you have turned into making this personal, I will exit. Feel free to reply with whatever makes you feel best.
        fragmede 2y ago
        Where did I say that Aristotle wasn't a foundational scientist? it's just that we're not at CRISPR and mRNA vaccines without the rest of modern society.
    - 2y ago
- piva00 2y ago
  Electric vehicle? Damn, that's unimaginative... Use your legs: walk or bike.
- JKCalhoun 2y ago
  I hope no one is driving to a grocery store just to pick up one tube of toothpaste.

lm28469 2y ago

> How many of these people getting toothpaste or whatever delivered by electrically powered drone would alternatively be firing up their dinosaur-powered F-150 to drive to the local supermarket instead? Why do you want to solve the last symptom in the long chain of failure upon failure, by adding on more atrocity in the mix ? If I want toothpaste I walk 250 meters to my closest shop and buy some damn toothpaste

spongebobstoes 2y ago
Fixing that "long chain" requires rebuilding a majority of American cities, and relocating a large portion of American citizens. Sure, maybe it can be done incrementally. But it isn't being done very quickly or well, even in Seattle where I know folks are trying. Does solving those systemic, political, societal and human issues seem easier than building a quiet drone?

palata 2y ago

> but deferring to the UN's IPCC reports on the topic. I encourage you to read the reports. Did you actually read them? They say that in order to keep the temperature raise below 1.5/2deg, we essentially have to reduce the global economy by 1 covid crisis every year and find a miracle way to capture CO2 massively. So they really say "it's pretty bad". But that's not all! The IPCC reports require some kind of consensus and are notoriously optimistic! Every single year, what we observe (as in, we measure) is that the IPCC models were optimistic. Every. Single. Year. So the IPCC reports say "it's pretty bad", and this is optimistic! Finally, we are living a mass extinction right now. It's not a prediction, it's a measurable fact. Life on Earth is collapsing, already. Remember the dinosaurs? What got them extinct is the climate change that followed the asteroid, right? It was a lot slower than what we are measuring right now. So yeah... the only thing I can imagine could keep us alive where the dinosaurs (and most big animals) got extinct is technology. But you know what? Technology is globally adding to the problem! Again, not predictions but facts: every year with emit more CO2 thanks to the "progress" in technology. A lot of technology is getting better and requires less energy, but rebound effects completely cancel that progress. We are on the verge of collapsing, and at a time in history where we would need to be extremely smart and work together, the geopolitical instability is increasing by the day. Are we doomed? Probably. But if there is a chance we survive, what we need is to do less with less, but in a much more clever way. Lots of work for engineers and scientists, but not on AR headset or LLMs. For some reason nobody is interested in saving our arse, they'd rather try to get rich.