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"Legally rightful" is often different from "morally rightful". Craig is morally in the wrong - he seized control over classifieds market, and is now using that

by DenisM 14y ago

"Legally rightful" is often different from "morally rightful". Craig is morally in the wrong - he seized control over classifieds market, and is now using that position to stall the progress and harm consumers. By way of analogy, saying "build your own stuff" is akin to saying "build your own popular OS and sell it to OEMs" in the face of a crushing Microsoft monopoly on the nineties. The network effect is far too strong for a free-market approach to work its magic, and as a result we all suffer. I wonder if Craig realizes he became a Microsoft-style monopoly. That should be a very uncomfortable thought to him.

smacktoward 14y ago
he seized control over classifieds market You say "seized control" like he showed up with a bunch of armed goons and wrested it away from its rightful owner. Craigslist dominates online classifieds because they recognized it was a market worth serving years before the incumbents in classifieds did, and served it. It's not a crime to get there first. I wonder if Craig realizes he became a Microsoft-style monopoly I must have missed the part where Craigslist used their dominant position in classified advertising to unfairly benefit other products they offer.
- lotyrin 14y ago
  Grandparent obviously meant the entrenched-but-ultimately-mediocre sort of monopoly. What Microsoft has individually gotten hand slapped for isn't as important as the history of their character.
- jessriedel 14y ago
  > You say "seized control" like he showed up with a bunch of armed goons and wrested it away from its rightful owner. Craigslist dominates online classifieds because they recognized it was a market worth serving years before the incumbents in classifieds did, and served it. It's not a crime to get there first. I agree that "seize" is poor word choice, but the fact that he gained a monopoly position through legal competition does not negate the fact that it's a monopoly. >I must have missed the part where Craigslist used their dominant position in classified advertising to unfairly benefit other products they offer. They use it to advance an unusual philosophy. Yes, this is different from using it to get money, but the effect for those of us who do not share their philosophy are similar. If Standard Oil used the money earned from its monopoly powers to buy teddy bears for orphans, that wouldn't have reduced arguments that it was a trust and needed to be broken up. (And given Rockefeller's philanthropy, this isn't too far from the truth.) Edit (since I can't reply): network effects keep out other competitors. I don't know what "unfair practices" are defined as, I just know that monopolies insulated from competition are bad. Somewhat analogous was Standard Oil's policy of dropping their prices below cost locally long enough for small competitors to go out of business, and then raising them afterwards. New competitors were prevented from entering because Standard Oil had a reliable threat of doing it again. This didn't require Standard Oil to apply horizontal leverage (i.e. using dominance in the market for one product to influence another).
  - dedward 14y ago
    Doesn't come near unfair practices though - nobody is being muscled out. They aren't using their market position to force anyone out - unless you want to pretend that deciding who can and can't use their services for whatever purpose is something they shouldn't be allowed to do, ethically or legally.
  - vampirechicken 14y ago
    > I agree that "seize" is poor word choice, > but the fact that he gained a monopoly position > through legal competition does not negate the fact > that it's a monopoly. Putting up a classified ads web site is dead simple. There are no barriers to entry other than the kind of technical competence displayed by high school kids, and five or ten bucks to fund your hosting account. The fact that it is immensely difficult to attract users away from an established site does not make CL a monopoly. The fact that nobody cares that you have a "better mousetrap" does not make CL a monopoly.
slantyyz 14y ago
> I wonder if Craig realizes he became a Microsoft-style monopoly. Where I live, I hear people mention that they use Kijiji at least as much as I hear them mention Craigslist.

by DenisM 14y ago

smacktoward 14y ago

he seized control over classifieds market You say "seized control" like he showed up with a bunch of armed goons and wrested it away from its rightful owner. Craigslist dominates online classifieds because they recognized it was a market worth serving years before the incumbents in classifieds did, and served it. It's not a crime to get there first. I wonder if Craig realizes he became a Microsoft-style monopoly I must have missed the part where Craigslist used their dominant position in classified advertising to unfairly benefit other products they offer.

lotyrin 14y ago
Grandparent obviously meant the entrenched-but-ultimately-mediocre sort of monopoly. What Microsoft has individually gotten hand slapped for isn't as important as the history of their character.
jessriedel 14y ago
> You say "seized control" like he showed up with a bunch of armed goons and wrested it away from its rightful owner. Craigslist dominates online classifieds because they recognized it was a market worth serving years before the incumbents in classifieds did, and served it. It's not a crime to get there first. I agree that "seize" is poor word choice, but the fact that he gained a monopoly position through legal competition does not negate the fact that it's a monopoly. >I must have missed the part where Craigslist used their dominant position in classified advertising to unfairly benefit other products they offer. They use it to advance an unusual philosophy. Yes, this is different from using it to get money, but the effect for those of us who do not share their philosophy are similar. If Standard Oil used the money earned from its monopoly powers to buy teddy bears for orphans, that wouldn't have reduced arguments that it was a trust and needed to be broken up. (And given Rockefeller's philanthropy, this isn't too far from the truth.) Edit (since I can't reply): network effects keep out other competitors. I don't know what "unfair practices" are defined as, I just know that monopolies insulated from competition are bad. Somewhat analogous was Standard Oil's policy of dropping their prices below cost locally long enough for small competitors to go out of business, and then raising them afterwards. New competitors were prevented from entering because Standard Oil had a reliable threat of doing it again. This didn't require Standard Oil to apply horizontal leverage (i.e. using dominance in the market for one product to influence another).
- dedward 14y ago
  Doesn't come near unfair practices though - nobody is being muscled out. They aren't using their market position to force anyone out - unless you want to pretend that deciding who can and can't use their services for whatever purpose is something they shouldn't be allowed to do, ethically or legally.
- vampirechicken 14y ago
  > I agree that "seize" is poor word choice, > but the fact that he gained a monopoly position > through legal competition does not negate the fact > that it's a monopoly. Putting up a classified ads web site is dead simple. There are no barriers to entry other than the kind of technical competence displayed by high school kids, and five or ten bucks to fund your hosting account. The fact that it is immensely difficult to attract users away from an established site does not make CL a monopoly. The fact that nobody cares that you have a "better mousetrap" does not make CL a monopoly.

slantyyz 14y ago

> I wonder if Craig realizes he became a Microsoft-style monopoly. Where I live, I hear people mention that they use Kijiji at least as much as I hear them mention Craigslist.