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Drone delivery is a fundamentally bad idea. That is, except for the exceptional cases where it matters (like a medical emergency). Drones won't replace trucks;

by palata 2y ago

Drone delivery is a fundamentally bad idea. That is, except for the exceptional cases where it matters (like a medical emergency). Drones won't replace trucks; they are aiming at the last mile. There is already a perfect way to deliver a small payload over a mile: take a bike. That's healthy, that's economical, that's ecological, that's quiet. Why isn't Amazon working on that? Because it doesn't bring them profit.

throwway120385 2y ago
Amazon isn't working on that because they have a bunch of software developers and they need to justify their existence with something other than making AWS better or fixing the bugs with their shopping website. Drone delivery is probably a "sexy" project some EVP or C-level is pushing because they want to add it to their resume.
- alt227 2y ago
  No, this is all wrong. Amazon are piling money into this because being able to deliver a small package over the last mile with zero people involved is a massive win to them. People are lazy, unreliable, hard to manage, and demand luxuries like toilets and water. The sooner they can get rid of them the better.
  - datadrivenangel 2y ago
    It adds a very low cost per-package low-package no person required option to their delivery options. A truck with a human will almost always be cheaper, but if you have a single package that will take a 10 minute detour for a driver due to a fluke of purchasing patterns, being able to drone deliver it could reduce the cost of that specific package delivery significantly, thus reducing overall system costs especially if that truck can now spend more time delivering goods in denser areas.
    - alt227 2y ago
      You are forgetting about the fact that the truck, and the industry behind it, already exist. How many new factories, mining operations, flights and ships will be required to start providing Amazon with the millions of new drones per year it will need to achieve this? This is not just a quick and easy way to replace a 10 minute detour. It is a new multi billion dollar industry which uses countless tons of materials and more energy to create millions more new plastic 'things' which will cost lots in energy and materials whilst simultaneously causing lots more waste on the planet.
fnfjfk 2y ago
They are working on that, well... kind of. They somehow convinced the NYC government to allow them to legally operate little trucks in bike lanes. They claim that they are "bikes" (bikes have two wheels, that's what "bi" means, these have four) https://www.reddit.com/r/NYCbike/comments/1gw1wlj/amazon_box_bikes/ https://www.reddit.com/r/NYCbike/comments/1gw1wlj/amazon_box...
- albrewer 2y ago
  Amsterdam lets little vehicles like this operate in its bike lanes. They can't be capable of going over ~30 mph. I imagine a similar policy is being followed here.
- durumu 2y ago
  I like those vehicles, honestly -- delivery trucks are going to park in the bike lane regardless and these are much smaller and safer to maneuver around. I want to see more of them and hope it leads to more bike lanes being built in NYC.
- daemonologist 2y ago
  Normally I have no problem with "bicycles" having more than two wheels operating in bike lanes (for example: recumbent trikes, trailers), but I agree - those vehicles seem more like golf carts than cargo bikes. I'd be interested to know how much they weigh empty and what proportion of their power comes from the rider rather than the "assist." Probably better for the city overall than a full size truck but I wouldn't be stoked to share the bike lane with one... Also those are definitely going to be parked blocking the lane lol.
- makestuff 2y ago
  I'm pretty sure you also do not need a driver's license to operate them since they are bikes.
whymeogod 2y ago
Drone delivery is a bad idea especially in exceptional cases like a medical emergency because it is much less robust to inclement weather. emergency systems need to _just work_. Your "take a bike" solution is far superior. Thanks for your post.
- palata 2y ago
  I agree with your point, and I think that there are a few exceptional cases (some of which I believe Zipline addresses) where the alternative to the drone delivery is nothing. But to my knowledge, those are very rare use-cases.
- alt227 2y ago
  > it is much less robust to inclement weather. So are helicopters, but we use them for air ambulances as and when conditions dictate it is safe.
- bluescrn 2y ago
  The niche for drone delivery is the one that Zipline found - delivering medical supplies in remote areas with poor road access. For the majority of cases, it's a stupid idea. If you really want to automate away delivery drivers, self-driving vans probably make more sense, when self-driving tech gets good enough.
Kye 2y ago
I don't think these drones are for places that can be traversed safely or reasonably on bicycle. They're great for suburban sprawl where cycling isn't really viable and road trips take 10x as long to reach the places a drone can go.
- palata 2y ago
  Then solve the underlying problem, I would say: why is it not viable to cycle one mile in those areas?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
bombcar 2y ago
The reason Amazon likes the drones is there's nobody they have to pay riding them. The bikes (for now) require a rider. And autonomous ground-delivery vehicles have and are being tried. There are tons of issues with those, too. The drones were an interesting if obvious idea to try, but I think they aren't quite practical. Now hydrogen drone blimps might solve many of the problems, but introduce new ones. And helium is too expensive.

by palata 2y ago

throwway120385 2y ago

Amazon isn't working on that because they have a bunch of software developers and they need to justify their existence with something other than making AWS better or fixing the bugs with their shopping website. Drone delivery is probably a "sexy" project some EVP or C-level is pushing because they want to add it to their resume.

alt227 2y ago
No, this is all wrong. Amazon are piling money into this because being able to deliver a small package over the last mile with zero people involved is a massive win to them. People are lazy, unreliable, hard to manage, and demand luxuries like toilets and water. The sooner they can get rid of them the better.
- datadrivenangel 2y ago
  It adds a very low cost per-package low-package no person required option to their delivery options. A truck with a human will almost always be cheaper, but if you have a single package that will take a 10 minute detour for a driver due to a fluke of purchasing patterns, being able to drone deliver it could reduce the cost of that specific package delivery significantly, thus reducing overall system costs especially if that truck can now spend more time delivering goods in denser areas.
  - alt227 2y ago
    You are forgetting about the fact that the truck, and the industry behind it, already exist. How many new factories, mining operations, flights and ships will be required to start providing Amazon with the millions of new drones per year it will need to achieve this? This is not just a quick and easy way to replace a 10 minute detour. It is a new multi billion dollar industry which uses countless tons of materials and more energy to create millions more new plastic 'things' which will cost lots in energy and materials whilst simultaneously causing lots more waste on the planet.

fnfjfk 2y ago

They are working on that, well... kind of. They somehow convinced the NYC government to allow them to legally operate little trucks in bike lanes. They claim that they are "bikes" (bikes have two wheels, that's what "bi" means, these have four) https://www.reddit.com/r/NYCbike/comments/1gw1wlj/amazon_box_bikes/ https://www.reddit.com/r/NYCbike/comments/1gw1wlj/amazon_box...

albrewer 2y ago
Amsterdam lets little vehicles like this operate in its bike lanes. They can't be capable of going over ~30 mph. I imagine a similar policy is being followed here.
durumu 2y ago
I like those vehicles, honestly -- delivery trucks are going to park in the bike lane regardless and these are much smaller and safer to maneuver around. I want to see more of them and hope it leads to more bike lanes being built in NYC.
daemonologist 2y ago
Normally I have no problem with "bicycles" having more than two wheels operating in bike lanes (for example: recumbent trikes, trailers), but I agree - those vehicles seem more like golf carts than cargo bikes. I'd be interested to know how much they weigh empty and what proportion of their power comes from the rider rather than the "assist." Probably better for the city overall than a full size truck but I wouldn't be stoked to share the bike lane with one... Also those are definitely going to be parked blocking the lane lol.
makestuff 2y ago
I'm pretty sure you also do not need a driver's license to operate them since they are bikes.

whymeogod 2y ago

Drone delivery is a bad idea especially in exceptional cases like a medical emergency because it is much less robust to inclement weather. emergency systems need to _just work_. Your "take a bike" solution is far superior. Thanks for your post.

palata 2y ago
I agree with your point, and I think that there are a few exceptional cases (some of which I believe Zipline addresses) where the alternative to the drone delivery is nothing. But to my knowledge, those are very rare use-cases.
alt227 2y ago
> it is much less robust to inclement weather. So are helicopters, but we use them for air ambulances as and when conditions dictate it is safe.
bluescrn 2y ago
The niche for drone delivery is the one that Zipline found - delivering medical supplies in remote areas with poor road access. For the majority of cases, it's a stupid idea. If you really want to automate away delivery drivers, self-driving vans probably make more sense, when self-driving tech gets good enough.

Kye 2y ago

I don't think these drones are for places that can be traversed safely or reasonably on bicycle. They're great for suburban sprawl where cycling isn't really viable and road trips take 10x as long to reach the places a drone can go.

palata 2y ago
Then solve the underlying problem, I would say: why is it not viable to cycle one mile in those areas?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

bombcar 2y ago

The reason Amazon likes the drones is there's nobody they have to pay riding them. The bikes (for now) require a rider. And autonomous ground-delivery vehicles have and are being tried. There are tons of issues with those, too. The drones were an interesting if obvious idea to try, but I think they aren't quite practical. Now hydrogen drone blimps might solve many of the problems, but introduce new ones. And helium is too expensive.