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As true and important as that it, there are more harmful and more direct effects wrapped up with our record inequality than jealousy and resentment, or even hat

As true and important as that it, there are more harmful and more direct effects wrapped up with our record inequality than jealousy and resentment, or even hate; like the capture of our political system.* And most Americans have no idea how unequal wealth distribution really is, which means that those emotions are being easily redirected onto vulnerable groups by the people actually responsible for the gross inequality: immigrants, trans people, foreign powers etc. * See, for example, the vast gulf between public opinion on issues like Israel, public healthcare, free education and housing for all, vs the opinion of the political and media class.

bawolff 2y ago
> * See, for example, the vast gulf between public opinion on issues like Israel, public healthcare, free education and housing for all, vs the opinion of the political and media class. While i agree with you generally (blaming domestic problems on unpopular minorities or foreign enemies is a playbook as old as time), im not sure i agree that those issues are based on class division. Large swathes of America seem to be genuinely opposed to public healthcare. As a non american it boggles my mind, but it seems pretty clear that a significant portion dont want that for whatever reason (i would say that similarly those other issues don't follow class divides all that much either)
- mandmandam 2y ago
  > im not sure i agree that those issues are based on class division. Rule of thumb: it always, always goes back to class. No war but class war is a cliche for good reason. > Large swathes of America seem to be genuinely opposed to public healthcare. That may be kinda true, but most Americans actually want it [0]. They just have basically no representation in media or politics. These days we're 'lucky' if a Democrat gives healthcare the slightest lip service. > (i would say that similarly those other issues don't follow class divides all that much either They absolutely do. Most Americans want a ceasefire in Gaza and an arms embargo vs Israel. The political and media class almost unanimously pretend that isn't the case, but it is. Same with free education and housing. These aren't really debatable facts, or matters of opinion; you can look up the polls yourself. Americans want this stuff; our politicians and media do everything they can to stop us having them. And that's despite the fact that the vast majority of media, traditional and social, is under the thumb of like ten ultrawealthy people. 0 - https://news.gallup.com/poll/468401/majority-say-gov-ensure-healthcare.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/468401/majority-say-gov-ensure-...
  - bawolff 2y ago
    > Rule of thumb: it always, always goes back to class. No war but class war is a cliche for good reason. If its politically convinent to view things in terms of class then of course everything gets traced back to class. But i think that is more about trying to fit every peg into a round hole no matter how square it is. As the cliche goes, if all you have is a hammer. > That may be kinda true, but most Americans actually want it [0] I dont think the poll supports your contention. Only 57% wanted it. I'm not sure where you are drawing the line between classes here, but its hardly just the upper class saying no.
    - mandmandam 2y ago
      > If its politically convinent to view things in terms of class then of course everything gets traced back to class. You think I form my views for 'political convenience'? How strange. People trace things back to class because that's the driving force behind so much of what's wrong with the world. It's not the majority of ordinary people who are fighting for stripping environment regulations, or clamoring to make defense contractors billions of dollars, or pushing to make torture legal, or fighting to give Israel more 2,000 lb unguided bombs. It's the .1%. And that isn't really controversial, or difficult to figure out. When the political and media class are openly bought and owned by the .1%, refusing to acknowledge classes role in politics is profoundly silly. > I dont think the poll supports your contention. Only 57% wanted it. "Only" 57%? 57% is 'most'. By any and every definition. And if you compare that to the ~3% (at absolute max) of media and political figures who argue for public healthcare, you may start to see what the problem is. > its hardly just the upper class saying no. Yes - because 99% of the media, owned by the .1%, work every day to convince people that healthcare for profit is somehow a good and clever thing. The American health model is a sad laughing stock. It's a bogey man all over the world, a stark example of the perils of taking privatization too far. People in other countries are still cheering for Luigi lol. This class war which we are all in (whether we are aware of it or not) has casualties; one of them is our more vulnerable and easily manipulated brethren. That's why it's "only" 57% - because lifelong propaganda does indeed have an effect, especially on the easily swayed. A lot of Americans don't even know that this is the majority view.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  They don’t want public healthcare because they think poor undeserving people will get it or even worse those illegal immigrants.

bawolff 2y ago

> * See, for example, the vast gulf between public opinion on issues like Israel, public healthcare, free education and housing for all, vs the opinion of the political and media class. While i agree with you generally (blaming domestic problems on unpopular minorities or foreign enemies is a playbook as old as time), im not sure i agree that those issues are based on class division. Large swathes of America seem to be genuinely opposed to public healthcare. As a non american it boggles my mind, but it seems pretty clear that a significant portion dont want that for whatever reason (i would say that similarly those other issues don't follow class divides all that much either)

mandmandam 2y ago
> im not sure i agree that those issues are based on class division. Rule of thumb: it always, always goes back to class. No war but class war is a cliche for good reason. > Large swathes of America seem to be genuinely opposed to public healthcare. That may be kinda true, but most Americans actually want it [0]. They just have basically no representation in media or politics. These days we're 'lucky' if a Democrat gives healthcare the slightest lip service. > (i would say that similarly those other issues don't follow class divides all that much either They absolutely do. Most Americans want a ceasefire in Gaza and an arms embargo vs Israel. The political and media class almost unanimously pretend that isn't the case, but it is. Same with free education and housing. These aren't really debatable facts, or matters of opinion; you can look up the polls yourself. Americans want this stuff; our politicians and media do everything they can to stop us having them. And that's despite the fact that the vast majority of media, traditional and social, is under the thumb of like ten ultrawealthy people. 0 - https://news.gallup.com/poll/468401/majority-say-gov-ensure-healthcare.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/468401/majority-say-gov-ensure-...
- bawolff 2y ago
  > Rule of thumb: it always, always goes back to class. No war but class war is a cliche for good reason. If its politically convinent to view things in terms of class then of course everything gets traced back to class. But i think that is more about trying to fit every peg into a round hole no matter how square it is. As the cliche goes, if all you have is a hammer. > That may be kinda true, but most Americans actually want it [0] I dont think the poll supports your contention. Only 57% wanted it. I'm not sure where you are drawing the line between classes here, but its hardly just the upper class saying no.
  - mandmandam 2y ago
    > If its politically convinent to view things in terms of class then of course everything gets traced back to class. You think I form my views for 'political convenience'? How strange. People trace things back to class because that's the driving force behind so much of what's wrong with the world. It's not the majority of ordinary people who are fighting for stripping environment regulations, or clamoring to make defense contractors billions of dollars, or pushing to make torture legal, or fighting to give Israel more 2,000 lb unguided bombs. It's the .1%. And that isn't really controversial, or difficult to figure out. When the political and media class are openly bought and owned by the .1%, refusing to acknowledge classes role in politics is profoundly silly. > I dont think the poll supports your contention. Only 57% wanted it. "Only" 57%? 57% is 'most'. By any and every definition. And if you compare that to the ~3% (at absolute max) of media and political figures who argue for public healthcare, you may start to see what the problem is. > its hardly just the upper class saying no. Yes - because 99% of the media, owned by the .1%, work every day to convince people that healthcare for profit is somehow a good and clever thing. The American health model is a sad laughing stock. It's a bogey man all over the world, a stark example of the perils of taking privatization too far. People in other countries are still cheering for Luigi lol. This class war which we are all in (whether we are aware of it or not) has casualties; one of them is our more vulnerable and easily manipulated brethren. That's why it's "only" 57% - because lifelong propaganda does indeed have an effect, especially on the easily swayed. A lot of Americans don't even know that this is the majority view.
scarface_74 2y ago
They don’t want public healthcare because they think poor undeserving people will get it or even worse those illegal immigrants.