8 ms·

As a person born in the middle class, I am quite sad to see it's extinction in realtime. Not sure what is the solution to this.

thomasingalls 2y ago
We could tax the wealthy
- marcyb5st 2y ago
  As long as there are countries that allow for tax avoidance it's not gonna work. If my income is in the 10s of millions I am better off paying a few millions to some firm to handle every single thing for me to hyper optimize my life. They make you change residence on paper and buy fictitious tickets to prove you have been in country x at least y days during the fiscal year, and much more. You still end up saving way more than paying 20/30% of taxes on those 10s of millions. There should be a global minimum tax, but trying to make every single ruling party in the world agree to that is a fool's errand. I think that what the little that got leaked by the Panama's papers few years ago is just the tip of the iceberg.
  - ahaferburg 2y ago
    Since 2019, large corporations the world over have been forced to open up their books to fiscal entities in their respective countries. Every country could tax what these companies earn in their country, and also add some penalty for evaded taxes booked in other countries. We can do the same with billionaires and their assets. The tax evasion industry (for corporations as well as for individuals) needs way more regulation and penalties. These firms inflict a net negative cost on society.
  - thomasingalls 2y ago
    I think the evidence shows this isn't exactly true.
hagbarth 2y ago
Higher top marginal income tax rate (was much higher in the 50s, 60s, 70s). Higher capital gains tax. And then use the income from that to distribute wealth through things like single payer health care, affordable housing etc. So the basic needed expenses don't take up such a large portion of the budget for middle income households. Also: stronger unions.
- boelboel 2y ago
  Higher marginal income taxes discourage investment and productivity and high capital gains causes high distortion/is difficult to implement/also discourage investment. Affordable housing shouldn't be tried to be solved by throwing money at it (subsidizing demand), the real way is to cause the supply to go up by laxer zoning and less restrictions. Inheritance taxes could also be used to 'level' the playing without causing huge distortion. Another good tax would be land value tax which would end up taxing those with more wealth the most as well as causing less speculation and more investment in actual companies which would fuel economic growth. Better unions will never work in the US these days because of deindustrialization and globalization, can't really have leverage when your sector is getting smaller. There's also just no more 'union culture'.
  - eszed 2y ago
    > Higher marginal income taxes discourage investment I'm not persuaded that this is true. They discourage investment in the stock market, and inhibit a venture capital model, but I think they encourage internal investment. I don't think it's a coincident that places like Bell Labs and Xerox PARC thrived during the high marginal tax regime, nor that back then companies were more apt to train and retain skilled labor: when C-class and stock-holders are taxed at a high rate there are more-useful things to do with profits than eye-watering compensation packages and stock buybacks.
  - rsanek 2y ago
    how are high capital gains difficult to implement? we have clear 15/20% federal rules on them now. we can just change those numbers to whatever we want, like many states already have (NY, CA)

thomasingalls 2y ago

We could tax the wealthy

marcyb5st 2y ago
As long as there are countries that allow for tax avoidance it's not gonna work. If my income is in the 10s of millions I am better off paying a few millions to some firm to handle every single thing for me to hyper optimize my life. They make you change residence on paper and buy fictitious tickets to prove you have been in country x at least y days during the fiscal year, and much more. You still end up saving way more than paying 20/30% of taxes on those 10s of millions. There should be a global minimum tax, but trying to make every single ruling party in the world agree to that is a fool's errand. I think that what the little that got leaked by the Panama's papers few years ago is just the tip of the iceberg.
- ahaferburg 2y ago
  Since 2019, large corporations the world over have been forced to open up their books to fiscal entities in their respective countries. Every country could tax what these companies earn in their country, and also add some penalty for evaded taxes booked in other countries. We can do the same with billionaires and their assets. The tax evasion industry (for corporations as well as for individuals) needs way more regulation and penalties. These firms inflict a net negative cost on society.
- thomasingalls 2y ago
  I think the evidence shows this isn't exactly true.

hagbarth 2y ago

Higher top marginal income tax rate (was much higher in the 50s, 60s, 70s). Higher capital gains tax. And then use the income from that to distribute wealth through things like single payer health care, affordable housing etc. So the basic needed expenses don't take up such a large portion of the budget for middle income households. Also: stronger unions.

boelboel 2y ago
Higher marginal income taxes discourage investment and productivity and high capital gains causes high distortion/is difficult to implement/also discourage investment. Affordable housing shouldn't be tried to be solved by throwing money at it (subsidizing demand), the real way is to cause the supply to go up by laxer zoning and less restrictions. Inheritance taxes could also be used to 'level' the playing without causing huge distortion. Another good tax would be land value tax which would end up taxing those with more wealth the most as well as causing less speculation and more investment in actual companies which would fuel economic growth. Better unions will never work in the US these days because of deindustrialization and globalization, can't really have leverage when your sector is getting smaller. There's also just no more 'union culture'.
- eszed 2y ago
  > Higher marginal income taxes discourage investment I'm not persuaded that this is true. They discourage investment in the stock market, and inhibit a venture capital model, but I think they encourage internal investment. I don't think it's a coincident that places like Bell Labs and Xerox PARC thrived during the high marginal tax regime, nor that back then companies were more apt to train and retain skilled labor: when C-class and stock-holders are taxed at a high rate there are more-useful things to do with profits than eye-watering compensation packages and stock buybacks.
- rsanek 2y ago
  how are high capital gains difficult to implement? we have clear 15/20% federal rules on them now. we can just change those numbers to whatever we want, like many states already have (NY, CA)