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> you need a solid strategy for storing the energy. This is an unsolved problem in our time Earnest question - why isn't this solved by the fact that batteries

by scubbo 2y ago

> you need a solid strategy for storing the energy. This is an unsolved problem in our time Earnest question - why isn't this solved by the fact that batteries exist? Are you saying that there is some technical/physical problem at-scale with storing _that much_ energy, or that there is some logistical problem with distributing and managing the batteries (ensuring the right ones are discharging at the right times), or that they are simply too expensive or specialist for us to build quickly enough right now, or...?

cturner 2y ago
Combination of all the points you make, yes.
adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
Batteries alone are too expensive to solve the problem well. The solution will be a complicated mix of solutions. Current batteries are excelent for short term variation (<1s). New Grid scale battery designs (e.g. flow batteries or molten salt batteries) are likely to make batteries pretty good for the <8 hour range. Hydro is unbeatable in the day to year range. That said, a lot of the solution will also likely come from demand shaping. Hot water tanks can be heated, and homes can be heated and cooled extra when there is excess power, charge EVs during work hours rather than overnight etc. There will be thousands of minor tweaks to take full advantage of solar. The power is cheap enough that it's worth reworking our entire economy around it.
- cturner 2y ago
  Agree that (pumped) hydro is good where it is practical. You make a claim about reworking our economy, > The power is cheap enough that it's worth reworking our entire economy around it. Can you substantiate this? Would it be fair to describe it as a utopian claim?
  - danans 2y ago
    > Would it be fair to describe it as a utopian claim? In the case of water heating (and water based space heating also) it's already here in terms of technology and availability. Heat pump storage water heaters are now widely available. The problem is that they can only be phased in as fast as existing gas water heaters reach EOL. Domestic water heating comprises almost 18% of household energy use in the United States.
- scubbo 2y ago
  Very much appreciate the thoughtful reply, thank you!

by scubbo 2y ago

cturner 2y ago

Combination of all the points you make, yes.

adgjlsfhk1 2y ago

Batteries alone are too expensive to solve the problem well. The solution will be a complicated mix of solutions. Current batteries are excelent for short term variation (<1s). New Grid scale battery designs (e.g. flow batteries or molten salt batteries) are likely to make batteries pretty good for the <8 hour range. Hydro is unbeatable in the day to year range. That said, a lot of the solution will also likely come from demand shaping. Hot water tanks can be heated, and homes can be heated and cooled extra when there is excess power, charge EVs during work hours rather than overnight etc. There will be thousands of minor tweaks to take full advantage of solar. The power is cheap enough that it's worth reworking our entire economy around it.

cturner 2y ago
Agree that (pumped) hydro is good where it is practical. You make a claim about reworking our economy, > The power is cheap enough that it's worth reworking our entire economy around it. Can you substantiate this? Would it be fair to describe it as a utopian claim?
- danans 2y ago
  > Would it be fair to describe it as a utopian claim? In the case of water heating (and water based space heating also) it's already here in terms of technology and availability. Heat pump storage water heaters are now widely available. The problem is that they can only be phased in as fast as existing gas water heaters reach EOL. Domestic water heating comprises almost 18% of household energy use in the United States.
scubbo 2y ago
Very much appreciate the thoughtful reply, thank you!