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I truly love this aesthetic and it's vision of the future. Clean air, healthy food, empowered communities. Abundance without waste, progress without destruction

by arn3n 2y ago

I truly love this aesthetic and it's vision of the future. Clean air, healthy food, empowered communities. Abundance without waste, progress without destruction, and equal opportunity without tyranny. This is the future that we should be developing software to enable. Instead, I'm frequently disappointed by the modern usages of software, which seem to cause excess waste, accelerate the destruction of our planet, and enable authoritarians. Maybe it's time to rethink what we're working towards.

layoric 2y ago
Everything gets captured by capital.. This aesthetic resonates the same with me. Its partly what drove me to join a startup to do global solar radiation forecasting as first employee. Burnt myself out over 4 years, but built platform that enabled higher penetration of solar pv power into grids all over the world, and was successful in this. I left due to burn out and realizing that most of the customers we would talk to about large scale solar utility sites that wanted integration with the data were basically banks/finance/insurance companies trying to return a better yield, they didn't care how. After I left got bought out by a risk management company. Call me naive, but I went into it knowing solar power is _cheaper_, and the inability to measure how much solar energy was in an electricity network, and uncertainty about the generation were the main problems the startup was aiming to solve. The finance made it attractive to capital, I got that, partly why I was convinced it would succeed, but I underestimated how laser focused these groups are to "line go up". They would outsource everything because they were there as the money people, and have people in the meeting knowing just enough to gauge if project was on track for expectations of "line go up". Problem being is that the margins aren't there. Everytime a solar panel is added to an electricity network, the life time ROI for ALL panels in the network goes down. This is due to pushing down the price of electricity during the day. Eg, when oversupply occurs in the middle of the day (and they don't store it cause X is cheaper), it causes electricity markets to drive prices down and even negative, meaning the return of possible life time generated power for each panel also gets reduced. Saying all that, the adoption of renewables is growing at a rapid pace due to it being cheaper, but also slowed down by constant value extraction shenanigans.
- szvsw 2y ago
  Mate, don’t give up! I think it’s time for you to go work on batteries! Capital is never going away I don’t think, but that doesn’t mean you have to be resigned to its inexorable subsumption of all productive potentials for value extractions… just means you need to keep finding ways to leverage your own knowledge of its behavior and response modes to make positive change (eg start working on demand forecasting in p2p battery storage networks, or utility scale deployment controls, etc etc).
  - no_wizard 2y ago
    There was a time when capital knew its place though. I humbly suggest we start to think about how we all can get back to that time. It’s come to rule the roost over all other concerns and we are not seeing the bright future we deserve as humanity in part but not solely, due to this fact. We can change that, but it means drawing the line. And I mean all of us
    - elevaet 2y ago
      How can we change this? I want so desperately to live in a world where capital takes a back seat but have trouble seeing the path to that.
      - BJones12 2y ago
        The only thing people love more than money is status. I suggest you start your search there.
        nickdothutton 2y ago
        I think you are right there. However everyone has been endlessly told "everyone is equal" (and not just in the eyes of the law of the land) for decades now. So there will be enormous inertia. As Lee Kuan Yew said, "humans are an unequal animal", so there is hope that reality might eventually break-out in their minds.
hedora 2y ago
You might like H.G. Wells’s utopia “The World Set Free.” It’s as relevant now as it was when it was written.
aaron695 2y ago
[dead]
torginus 2y ago
While I do like the appeal of this aesthetic, I honestly feel like putting solar panels on everything you own is a bit like growing tomatoes in your backyard. If we as a species, were truly committed to clean energy on a civilization scale, we would go all in on nuclear, and have renewables be produced at dedicated sites, built and maintained by professionals. Which goes against the DIY 'punk' idea of it, but I think 'punk' itself is a contradiction - the ability to live free from the constraints of society means you are using much more resources than someone who makes use of communal resources - flats, public transport, etc. The lifestyle of living in a detached house (or even a row house) is not available to everyone, on account of there not being enough resources to go around.
- lukan 2y ago
  "like growing tomatoes in your backyard" Have you tried it? Those tomatoes taste like real tomatoes, unlike those things, you can usually buy in a supermarket. And nuclear as the only sane choice is just your personal opinion, not a fact. What is the worst outcome, with too many solar panels vs too many nuclear reactors? Only in your nuclear Utopia all those reactors will be maintained to the highest standards. In reality humans cut corners, are still lazy, don't give shit and who cares, "it will be allright". Until it isn't when multiplied with lots of reactors and time.
  - itsoktocry 2y ago
    >Have you tried it? Yeah, it's a niche hobby. Nobody is relying on their backyard tomato harvest without a lot of work. Just like your backyard solar array.
    - lukan 2y ago
      And what about the taste? (Also my backyard will be automated one day)
  - zmgsabst 2y ago
    https://hbr.org/2021/06/the-dark-side-of-solar-power https://hbr.org/2021/06/the-dark-side-of-solar-power
hnthrowaway0315 2y ago
It is a possible future. But it calls for knowledgeable citizens who are not afraid to act.
corimaith 2y ago
Might be controversial, but I don't. Because solarpunk is insistent on the notion of negative rights, the notion of how one lives their life remains the same as today, and no better than the hunter-gatherers of the past. There will always be those who seek more, who admire those towers reaching into the sky, even as others admonish it as tyranny. And they are right, ambition will result in tyranny, in oppression and conflict, but even so, I would still believe in a future over an eternal present.
- hnthrowaway0315 2y ago
  You need knowledgeable citizens who are not afraid to act. They will naturally push back those people who seek more power/status.
  - zmgsabst 2y ago
    How did that work out in the USSR and CCP, where groups regulated the corrupt power of others on behalf of the people? What you’re describing is the perennially utopian pitch of Marxist societies — a century of failure, not withstanding.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - hnthrowaway0315 2y ago
      I'm not sure how many "knowledgeable citizens who are not afraid to act" existed in USSR towards the end. I don't get it. What do you prefer? The inverse?
    - lostlogin 2y ago
      > How did that work out in the USSR and CCP, where groups regulated the corrupt power of others on behalf of the people? You are right, and the US won that battle. But let’s wait a few years as that winning looking quite so solid today.
sizzle 2y ago
Getting Gaudí vibes from that first image on the wiki

by arn3n 2y ago

layoric 2y ago

Everything gets captured by capital.. This aesthetic resonates the same with me. Its partly what drove me to join a startup to do global solar radiation forecasting as first employee. Burnt myself out over 4 years, but built platform that enabled higher penetration of solar pv power into grids all over the world, and was successful in this. I left due to burn out and realizing that most of the customers we would talk to about large scale solar utility sites that wanted integration with the data were basically banks/finance/insurance companies trying to return a better yield, they didn't care how. After I left got bought out by a risk management company. Call me naive, but I went into it knowing solar power is _cheaper_, and the inability to measure how much solar energy was in an electricity network, and uncertainty about the generation were the main problems the startup was aiming to solve. The finance made it attractive to capital, I got that, partly why I was convinced it would succeed, but I underestimated how laser focused these groups are to "line go up". They would outsource everything because they were there as the money people, and have people in the meeting knowing just enough to gauge if project was on track for expectations of "line go up". Problem being is that the margins aren't there. Everytime a solar panel is added to an electricity network, the life time ROI for ALL panels in the network goes down. This is due to pushing down the price of electricity during the day. Eg, when oversupply occurs in the middle of the day (and they don't store it cause X is cheaper), it causes electricity markets to drive prices down and even negative, meaning the return of possible life time generated power for each panel also gets reduced. Saying all that, the adoption of renewables is growing at a rapid pace due to it being cheaper, but also slowed down by constant value extraction shenanigans.

szvsw 2y ago
Mate, don’t give up! I think it’s time for you to go work on batteries! Capital is never going away I don’t think, but that doesn’t mean you have to be resigned to its inexorable subsumption of all productive potentials for value extractions… just means you need to keep finding ways to leverage your own knowledge of its behavior and response modes to make positive change (eg start working on demand forecasting in p2p battery storage networks, or utility scale deployment controls, etc etc).
- no_wizard 2y ago
  There was a time when capital knew its place though. I humbly suggest we start to think about how we all can get back to that time. It’s come to rule the roost over all other concerns and we are not seeing the bright future we deserve as humanity in part but not solely, due to this fact. We can change that, but it means drawing the line. And I mean all of us
  - elevaet 2y ago
    How can we change this? I want so desperately to live in a world where capital takes a back seat but have trouble seeing the path to that.
    - BJones12 2y ago
      The only thing people love more than money is status. I suggest you start your search there.
      - nickdothutton 2y ago
        I think you are right there. However everyone has been endlessly told "everyone is equal" (and not just in the eyes of the law of the land) for decades now. So there will be enormous inertia. As Lee Kuan Yew said, "humans are an unequal animal", so there is hope that reality might eventually break-out in their minds.

hedora 2y ago

You might like H.G. Wells’s utopia “The World Set Free.” It’s as relevant now as it was when it was written.

aaron695 2y ago

[dead]

torginus 2y ago

While I do like the appeal of this aesthetic, I honestly feel like putting solar panels on everything you own is a bit like growing tomatoes in your backyard. If we as a species, were truly committed to clean energy on a civilization scale, we would go all in on nuclear, and have renewables be produced at dedicated sites, built and maintained by professionals. Which goes against the DIY 'punk' idea of it, but I think 'punk' itself is a contradiction - the ability to live free from the constraints of society means you are using much more resources than someone who makes use of communal resources - flats, public transport, etc. The lifestyle of living in a detached house (or even a row house) is not available to everyone, on account of there not being enough resources to go around.

lukan 2y ago
"like growing tomatoes in your backyard" Have you tried it? Those tomatoes taste like real tomatoes, unlike those things, you can usually buy in a supermarket. And nuclear as the only sane choice is just your personal opinion, not a fact. What is the worst outcome, with too many solar panels vs too many nuclear reactors? Only in your nuclear Utopia all those reactors will be maintained to the highest standards. In reality humans cut corners, are still lazy, don't give shit and who cares, "it will be allright". Until it isn't when multiplied with lots of reactors and time.
- itsoktocry 2y ago
  >Have you tried it? Yeah, it's a niche hobby. Nobody is relying on their backyard tomato harvest without a lot of work. Just like your backyard solar array.
  - lukan 2y ago
    And what about the taste? (Also my backyard will be automated one day)
- zmgsabst 2y ago
  https://hbr.org/2021/06/the-dark-side-of-solar-power https://hbr.org/2021/06/the-dark-side-of-solar-power

hnthrowaway0315 2y ago

It is a possible future. But it calls for knowledgeable citizens who are not afraid to act.

corimaith 2y ago

Might be controversial, but I don't. Because solarpunk is insistent on the notion of negative rights, the notion of how one lives their life remains the same as today, and no better than the hunter-gatherers of the past. There will always be those who seek more, who admire those towers reaching into the sky, even as others admonish it as tyranny. And they are right, ambition will result in tyranny, in oppression and conflict, but even so, I would still believe in a future over an eternal present.

hnthrowaway0315 2y ago
You need knowledgeable citizens who are not afraid to act. They will naturally push back those people who seek more power/status.
- zmgsabst 2y ago
  How did that work out in the USSR and CCP, where groups regulated the corrupt power of others on behalf of the people? What you’re describing is the perennially utopian pitch of Marxist societies — a century of failure, not withstanding.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - hnthrowaway0315 2y ago
    I'm not sure how many "knowledgeable citizens who are not afraid to act" existed in USSR towards the end. I don't get it. What do you prefer? The inverse?
  - lostlogin 2y ago
    > How did that work out in the USSR and CCP, where groups regulated the corrupt power of others on behalf of the people? You are right, and the US won that battle. But let’s wait a few years as that winning looking quite so solid today.

sizzle 2y ago

Getting Gaudí vibes from that first image on the wiki