4 ms·

> "The ratio of staff to students is nearly 1:1" > "This is insane." "This expansion is largely at the School of Medicine, where the yearly staff growth rate

> "The ratio of staff to students is nearly 1:1" > "This is insane." "This expansion is largely at the School of Medicine, where the yearly staff growth rate of 5.6% is significantly higher than the 1.7% rate across the rest of the University... School of Medicine spokesperson Courtney Lodato wrote that the increase largely includes clinical educators who teach and provide clinical care, financed by external research funds from government and industry sources"

ein0p 2y ago
Still, 1:1? Please.
- whoisburbansky 2y ago
  I mean, if you tack on a hospital to a university, the correct denominator to compare against is "patients served," not "students educated," at least for the portion of the headcount you're sticking in the numerator.
  - jhbadger 2y ago
    Hospitals attached to universities aren't in general "tacked on" but are a part of the educational environment. They exist not only to serve patients but to educate students.
    - whoisburbansky 2y ago
      No, of course, but is the primary focus of the bulk of the staff educational or patient care? Seems disingenuous to pretend it's the former just to make a point.
- naijaboiler 2y ago
  In the US, many Medical schools are schools only in the technical definition of schools. In reality they are more like research and medical centers that also do a bit of teaching on the side. Staff to students ratio could easily be in excess of 10:1 A little over a decade ago, I remember Dean of a top medical school I attended showing the budget of the medical school. Tuition was like 5% or of the entire med school revenue and budget. I remember raising my hand and asking the Dean if tuition was so little, why not just make it free. He gave me a death stare and just danced around the question.
  - ein0p 2y ago
    How come the ratio was so much lower before? Could it be the (mostly useless) administrative positions?
    - afthonos 2y ago
      The parenthetical is doing most of the lifting in that sentence.
      - ein0p 2y ago
        It's also true. Source: one of my kids is in college right now.
        mlyle 2y ago
        In this case, you've been refuted by an explanation that the growth is almost entirely at the school of medicine, and most of that increase has been in staff that are providing care. And you're continuing to advance the point anyways.
        afthonos 2y ago
        The post you responded to was about how medical schools are “schools” in name only. You may be correct that administrators are useless, but your kid’s experience, assuming they are in medical school is not really evidence because they don’t see more than a sliver of what the school does (and needs to do, by law).
brianleb 2y ago
Haven't seen anyone mention this yet: there is a difference between "listed employees" vs. "full time employees" (FTEs) vs. "full time employee equivalents" (FTEEs). In this very specific case, physicians/providers often work 0.125-0.875 (i.e. one hour to seven hours of an 8 hour day) for one entity (say, their primary teaching hospital), and the remainder for another entity (the university where they are also an listed as adjunct professor, etc.). You could have 10,000 employees, however 4,000 of them are physicians/providers, 3,000 of whom work less than full time for that entity. So you are looking at 10,000 employees, but some number between 7,000 and 9,999 FTEEs. These are very different, and very relevant, numbers when looking at healthcare organizations.
- testfoobar 2y ago
  Further detail from Stanford here: https://irds.stanford.edu/data-findings/staff-headcounts https://irds.stanford.edu/data-findings/staff-headcounts "Methodology & Definitions Staff Headcount Staff headcounts include all regular, benefits-eligible university employees. With rare exceptions, employees must be appointed at 50% FTE (full-time equivalent) or more for at least six consecutive months in order to be eligible for benefits. The Professoriate and employees of SLAC are not included. Employees with multiple jobs are counted only in the job that is tied to their benefits, typically the one with the largest number of standard hours."
testfoobar 2y ago
MIT 2024: 11,886 students. 17,490 Staff. MIT Staff to student ratio: 1.47 No medical school. The 17,490 number includes 4,500 Lincoln Lab staff. Backing those out. We get 12,990 MIT Staff. So an MIT Staff to student ratio of: 1.09 https://facts.mit.edu/employees/ https://facts.mit.edu/employees/ https://facts.mit.edu/lincoln-laboratory/ https://facts.mit.edu/lincoln-laboratory/
- op00to 2y ago
  Do you think that universities only exist to educate students or something? You do realize that many universities do research, right?

ein0p 2y ago

Still, 1:1? Please.

whoisburbansky 2y ago
I mean, if you tack on a hospital to a university, the correct denominator to compare against is "patients served," not "students educated," at least for the portion of the headcount you're sticking in the numerator.
- jhbadger 2y ago
  Hospitals attached to universities aren't in general "tacked on" but are a part of the educational environment. They exist not only to serve patients but to educate students.
  - whoisburbansky 2y ago
    No, of course, but is the primary focus of the bulk of the staff educational or patient care? Seems disingenuous to pretend it's the former just to make a point.
naijaboiler 2y ago
In the US, many Medical schools are schools only in the technical definition of schools. In reality they are more like research and medical centers that also do a bit of teaching on the side. Staff to students ratio could easily be in excess of 10:1 A little over a decade ago, I remember Dean of a top medical school I attended showing the budget of the medical school. Tuition was like 5% or of the entire med school revenue and budget. I remember raising my hand and asking the Dean if tuition was so little, why not just make it free. He gave me a death stare and just danced around the question.
- ein0p 2y ago
  How come the ratio was so much lower before? Could it be the (mostly useless) administrative positions?
  - afthonos 2y ago
    The parenthetical is doing most of the lifting in that sentence.
    - ein0p 2y ago
      It's also true. Source: one of my kids is in college right now.
      - mlyle 2y ago
        In this case, you've been refuted by an explanation that the growth is almost entirely at the school of medicine, and most of that increase has been in staff that are providing care. And you're continuing to advance the point anyways.
      - afthonos 2y ago
        The post you responded to was about how medical schools are “schools” in name only. You may be correct that administrators are useless, but your kid’s experience, assuming they are in medical school is not really evidence because they don’t see more than a sliver of what the school does (and needs to do, by law).

brianleb 2y ago

Haven't seen anyone mention this yet: there is a difference between "listed employees" vs. "full time employees" (FTEs) vs. "full time employee equivalents" (FTEEs). In this very specific case, physicians/providers often work 0.125-0.875 (i.e. one hour to seven hours of an 8 hour day) for one entity (say, their primary teaching hospital), and the remainder for another entity (the university where they are also an listed as adjunct professor, etc.). You could have 10,000 employees, however 4,000 of them are physicians/providers, 3,000 of whom work less than full time for that entity. So you are looking at 10,000 employees, but some number between 7,000 and 9,999 FTEEs. These are very different, and very relevant, numbers when looking at healthcare organizations.

testfoobar 2y ago
Further detail from Stanford here: https://irds.stanford.edu/data-findings/staff-headcounts https://irds.stanford.edu/data-findings/staff-headcounts "Methodology & Definitions Staff Headcount Staff headcounts include all regular, benefits-eligible university employees. With rare exceptions, employees must be appointed at 50% FTE (full-time equivalent) or more for at least six consecutive months in order to be eligible for benefits. The Professoriate and employees of SLAC are not included. Employees with multiple jobs are counted only in the job that is tied to their benefits, typically the one with the largest number of standard hours."

testfoobar 2y ago

MIT 2024: 11,886 students. 17,490 Staff. MIT Staff to student ratio: 1.47 No medical school. The 17,490 number includes 4,500 Lincoln Lab staff. Backing those out. We get 12,990 MIT Staff. So an MIT Staff to student ratio of: 1.09 https://facts.mit.edu/employees/ https://facts.mit.edu/employees/ https://facts.mit.edu/lincoln-laboratory/ https://facts.mit.edu/lincoln-laboratory/

op00to 2y ago
Do you think that universities only exist to educate students or something? You do realize that many universities do research, right?