3 ms·

I love what you say. I agree there must be a fight back. This has been cast as left/right - Ok. I can work with that. > If you put down all your guns, you

by worik 2y ago

I love what you say. I agree there must be a fight back. This has been cast as left/right - Ok. I can work with that. > If you put down all your guns, you can't shoot back. No. I urge those on the left, those who give a fuck, to fight back with with love and hope. The perpetrators of the coup in the USA got there spreading fear and hate. The temptation is to fight back with violence. But fascism thrives on violence and will only get stronger if you feed it. Love, and hope. That is what got a Obama elected - it works

9283409232 2y ago
The answer is community. It's why Republicans in some states are trying to ban collective bargaining. Invest in your communities and in each other.
- mmooss 2y ago
  How do you build community, or influence others, without effective messaging and effective resistance to disinformation about your community? If you gain any power, they'll come after you and smear you, and create a mob to attack you, and then what?
  - 9283409232 2y ago
    I'm not saying you are wrong about building effective channels of communication. The few leaders remaining of the dems agree with you but, knowing what to do after you build those channels of communication is important.
    - mmooss 2y ago
      Yes, I agree completely.
SubiculumCode 2y ago
I agree for now, but there may come a time where fire must be fought with fire. WWII would not have ended well without opposing armies.
- mmooss 2y ago
  But the Allies didn't fight like the Axis. It wasn't fire with fire, but evil with justice (imperfectly, of course).
mmooss 2y ago
> No. > I urge those on the left, those who give a fuck, to fight back with with love and hope. When I said, "If you put down all your guns, you can't shoot back." I meant that metaphorically, in the context of information warfare. If you don't have an effective messaging and countermessaging, if you give up that fight, you can't defeat your enemy in that domain. I'm not advocating violence. > I urge those on the left, those who give a fuck, to fight back with with love and hope. > The perpetrators of the coup in the USA got there spreading fear and hate. The temptation is to fight back with violence. But fascism thrives on violence and will only get stronger if you feed it. I agree generally - that's why I talked about truth, goodness, and decency. My point is that you need an effective way to reach people and persaude them, otherwise you're only loving and hoping yourself.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> I urge those on the left, those who give a fuck, to fight back with with love and hope You can fight with love and hope and guns. (Figuratively.) Musk and the DOGE bros are breaking the law. At the very least that means Democrats in the Congress, governors’ and mayors’ mansions need to put aside norms and conventions. (I say arrest them [1] for violating the Privacy Act of ‘74.) [1] https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-state-officials-arrest-violators-of-federal-crimes/538095 https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-state-officials-arrest...
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  [flagged]
- mmooss 2y ago
  New norms and conventions need to be established, and at a high standard of consideration, democracy, intelligence, and effectiveness. You don't want to just clear away norms and conventions - you don't want to help establish the norm that such a thing is acceptable. You do want to establish the norm that you will not tolerate threats to freedom and democracy, and that you will respond highly effectively (not desperately and flailing); that norms and conventions can be properly and effectively established; and that your side will do that - in vivid contrast to the other. To do that you need courage, 'grace under pressure'.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > You don't want to just clear away norms and conventions They’ve already being cleared. Pretending they’re still there is delusional. Some may need to be replaced with laws. But in the meantime, it is strategically stupid to play a game by a private set of rules.
    - mmooss 2y ago
      I wasn't disagreeing, just adding something about how to do it.

by worik 2y ago

9283409232 2y ago

The answer is community. It's why Republicans in some states are trying to ban collective bargaining. Invest in your communities and in each other.

mmooss 2y ago
How do you build community, or influence others, without effective messaging and effective resistance to disinformation about your community? If you gain any power, they'll come after you and smear you, and create a mob to attack you, and then what?
- 9283409232 2y ago
  I'm not saying you are wrong about building effective channels of communication. The few leaders remaining of the dems agree with you but, knowing what to do after you build those channels of communication is important.
  - mmooss 2y ago
    Yes, I agree completely.

SubiculumCode 2y ago

I agree for now, but there may come a time where fire must be fought with fire. WWII would not have ended well without opposing armies.

mmooss 2y ago
But the Allies didn't fight like the Axis. It wasn't fire with fire, but evil with justice (imperfectly, of course).

mmooss 2y ago

> No. > I urge those on the left, those who give a fuck, to fight back with with love and hope. When I said, "If you put down all your guns, you can't shoot back." I meant that metaphorically, in the context of information warfare. If you don't have an effective messaging and countermessaging, if you give up that fight, you can't defeat your enemy in that domain. I'm not advocating violence. > I urge those on the left, those who give a fuck, to fight back with with love and hope. > The perpetrators of the coup in the USA got there spreading fear and hate. The temptation is to fight back with violence. But fascism thrives on violence and will only get stronger if you feed it. I agree generally - that's why I talked about truth, goodness, and decency. My point is that you need an effective way to reach people and persaude them, otherwise you're only loving and hoping yourself.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> I urge those on the left, those who give a fuck, to fight back with with love and hope You can fight with love and hope and guns. (Figuratively.) Musk and the DOGE bros are breaking the law. At the very least that means Democrats in the Congress, governors’ and mayors’ mansions need to put aside norms and conventions. (I say arrest them [1] for violating the Privacy Act of ‘74.) [1] https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-state-officials-arrest-violators-of-federal-crimes/538095 https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-state-officials-arrest...

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
[flagged]
mmooss 2y ago
New norms and conventions need to be established, and at a high standard of consideration, democracy, intelligence, and effectiveness. You don't want to just clear away norms and conventions - you don't want to help establish the norm that such a thing is acceptable. You do want to establish the norm that you will not tolerate threats to freedom and democracy, and that you will respond highly effectively (not desperately and flailing); that norms and conventions can be properly and effectively established; and that your side will do that - in vivid contrast to the other. To do that you need courage, 'grace under pressure'.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > You don't want to just clear away norms and conventions They’ve already being cleared. Pretending they’re still there is delusional. Some may need to be replaced with laws. But in the meantime, it is strategically stupid to play a game by a private set of rules.
  - mmooss 2y ago
    I wasn't disagreeing, just adding something about how to do it.