2 ms·

Have you considered outright donating to Apple instead? Seems like a more direct way to put your money and support behind Kagi's upstream rendering engine devel

by lxgr 2y ago

Have you considered outright donating to Apple instead? Seems like a more direct way to put your money and support behind Kagi's upstream rendering engine developers. And seriously, threatening chargebacks, which can and often do cost the recipient money beyond just the loss of an original payment/donation, against a nonprofit over an (all things considered) minor change in direction is pretty despicable. I could get behind it if this was actual non-profit fraud, but none of these points of criticisms against Mozilla seem new. You knew what you were donating to.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Have you considered outright donating to Apple instead? No. I buy their products. As I said, I’m no longer of the opinion that a free / donation-based browser works as a model. > threatening chargebacks, which can and often do cost the recipient money beyond just the loss of an original payment/donation, against a nonprofit over an (all things considered) minor change in direction is pretty despicable Not a threat. I wrote a cheque, unfortunately, but others didn’t and Amex has begun processing them. If Mozilla litigates I said I’d indemnify them up to a sizeable amount.
- lxgr 2y ago
  > As I said, I’m no longer of the opinion that a free / donation-based browser works as a model. [...] If Mozilla litigates I said I’d indemnify them up to a sizeable amount. Obviously your decision, but even given that, do you think it'll do the state of the open web much good to litigate against Mozilla?
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > do you think it'll do the state of the open web much good to litigate against Mozilla? I’m not litigating. I am saying if Mozilla decides to litigate I’ll help my friends fight back and frankly ensure the court battle costs Mozilla more than anything they recover. The extent of my actions are to withdraw to the ability I can the prior support I gave them. On the open web, I don’t see Mozilla as a good actor. And they’re not going anywhere over a few chargebacks. So not particularly concerned about their costs or frankly going concern.
    - lxgr 2y ago
      > I’ll help my friends fight back and frankly ensure the court battle costs Mozilla more than anything they recover. Again, you're of course allowed to be as spiteful as you wish within the limits of the law, but I sincerely hope that your money never touches any open source project I care about if it comes with such strings attached as a substitute for prior due diligence. I really wonder what it is about Mozilla that makes them subject to significantly more vicious rhetoric on this site than their for-profit competitors... Personally I'm also conflicted and as a result I'm not donating to them, but this is a completely different level.
    - gamblor956 2y ago
      I’ll help my friends fight back and frankly ensure the court battle costs Mozilla more than anything they recover. The extent of my actions are to withdraw to the ability I can the prior support I gave them. If you do so, I'll forward Mozilla's legal team, and the court, a copy of your comments from this thread. You've admitted that the chargebacks were not justified, and that your sole reason for fighting any litigation resulting from the chargebacks is to inflict financial harm on the opposing party. The law offers a remedy to deal with situations like this: they can make you pay Mozilla's court costs, meaning that they get the chargebacks back, and all of their legal fees covered. And there is a better than 50/50 chance the judge imposes sanctions on you for wasting the resources of the court (though based on your profile this may not be a meaningful sum to you). Seriously, talk to a lawyer before you comment any further.

by lxgr 2y ago

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> Have you considered outright donating to Apple instead? No. I buy their products. As I said, I’m no longer of the opinion that a free / donation-based browser works as a model. > threatening chargebacks, which can and often do cost the recipient money beyond just the loss of an original payment/donation, against a nonprofit over an (all things considered) minor change in direction is pretty despicable Not a threat. I wrote a cheque, unfortunately, but others didn’t and Amex has begun processing them. If Mozilla litigates I said I’d indemnify them up to a sizeable amount.

lxgr 2y ago
> As I said, I’m no longer of the opinion that a free / donation-based browser works as a model. [...] If Mozilla litigates I said I’d indemnify them up to a sizeable amount. Obviously your decision, but even given that, do you think it'll do the state of the open web much good to litigate against Mozilla?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > do you think it'll do the state of the open web much good to litigate against Mozilla? I’m not litigating. I am saying if Mozilla decides to litigate I’ll help my friends fight back and frankly ensure the court battle costs Mozilla more than anything they recover. The extent of my actions are to withdraw to the ability I can the prior support I gave them. On the open web, I don’t see Mozilla as a good actor. And they’re not going anywhere over a few chargebacks. So not particularly concerned about their costs or frankly going concern.
  - lxgr 2y ago
    > I’ll help my friends fight back and frankly ensure the court battle costs Mozilla more than anything they recover. Again, you're of course allowed to be as spiteful as you wish within the limits of the law, but I sincerely hope that your money never touches any open source project I care about if it comes with such strings attached as a substitute for prior due diligence. I really wonder what it is about Mozilla that makes them subject to significantly more vicious rhetoric on this site than their for-profit competitors... Personally I'm also conflicted and as a result I'm not donating to them, but this is a completely different level.
  - gamblor956 2y ago
    I’ll help my friends fight back and frankly ensure the court battle costs Mozilla more than anything they recover. The extent of my actions are to withdraw to the ability I can the prior support I gave them. If you do so, I'll forward Mozilla's legal team, and the court, a copy of your comments from this thread. You've admitted that the chargebacks were not justified, and that your sole reason for fighting any litigation resulting from the chargebacks is to inflict financial harm on the opposing party. The law offers a remedy to deal with situations like this: they can make you pay Mozilla's court costs, meaning that they get the chargebacks back, and all of their legal fees covered. And there is a better than 50/50 chance the judge imposes sanctions on you for wasting the resources of the court (though based on your profile this may not be a meaningful sum to you). Seriously, talk to a lawyer before you comment any further.