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How is the perception of US being the sucker while being the most prosperous Nation at the same time? It's one of the most absurd takes. Like, why do you thin

How is the perception of US being the sucker while being the most prosperous Nation at the same time? It's one of the most absurd takes. Like, why do you think the US had privileged access to deals, and had a welcoming seat at the table? Countries were forced to do it? Or you think that the US, of all countries, was being gullible and extorted all while amassing wealth? It's funny that the demise of the US came finally at the hand of Russian propaganda, and ignorance will make sure that it will come through.

pfdietz 2y ago
I think it comes from Trump being a con man? The last thing he wants to be is the chump being taken advantage of. That's the other side of the table.
- jleyank 2y ago
  Also, each transaction seems to be independent - no history and no concern about the future. Thus, there's no "lose one to win two" kind of thinking. And as everything has to be a win-lose, the US will be a last-resort kind of player for others.
- libertine 2y ago
  What advantage are you speaking of? Do you realize that for example China trying to have access to Ports and Military bases is massive endeavor. For example, Russia losing Syria and its ports and airbases is one of the biggest blunders in modern History. Yet you have the idea that US power projection and getting free access to bases and ports is being a "chump being taken advantage of"! It's not the other side of the table, it's ignorance. You can make the case that it isn't valuable, but Russia and China sure as hell are trying hard to get these perks, and they will fill the void.
  - pfdietz 2y ago
    > What advantage are you speaking of? Defensive alliances where the cost is on the US and the benefit is on the other side. Scientific research, where the benefit is spread across the world but the cost is here. CO2 emission control, where the benefit is global and the cost is local.
    - Herring 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - pfdietz 2y ago
        I'm struggling to understand the point you're trying to make there. Is there any content at all in your comment?
        Herring 2y ago
        [flagged]
        pfdietz 2y ago
        Again, where is the actual statement of a position there? You are implying something, but you aren't actually saying anything.
    - libertine 2y ago
      I'm sorry, but these are further ignorant takes. You'd rather have nuclear proliferation and US trying to defend itself from any country that can have the capacity to wipe out the US? Or the US, a country that had terrorist attacks like 9/11, being deprived of intelligence, and support from allies that allowed the US to extend their reach and logistics? As for the scientific research, are you talking about the mRNA vaccines developed in Germany, to which the US had a privileged access too? Like how much ignorance will you continue to display in this thread, and to what objective? Please get some help from a LLM or something like that, I won't even ask you to do a Google search. It's like all your opinions on the matter are acquired from podcasts like Joe Rogan who were pushing Trump and Russian propaganda - it's called podcast knowledge.
      - pfdietz 2y ago
        Yes, this position implies substantial nuclear proliferation. Even those much to the left of Trump are calling for this (granted, because of Trump's actions). https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/japan-south-korea-and-poland-need https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/japan-south-korea-and-poland-n... > As for the scientific research, are you talking about the mRNA vaccines developed in Germany, to which the US had a privileged access too? The point of this position is that the US has access to these scientific results regardless of what the US spends on science. Scientific results are positive externalities. The position is one of free riding on the efforts of others, rather than the opposite. > Like how much ignorance will you continue to display in this thread What ignorance is that, specifically? Also, my describing a position is not advocating that position. Have I stated I agree with it?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
tobias3 2y ago
It is going horribly wrong at the moment, and I don't think the people in charge have any idea of what's going wrong, why they were elected, or how to fix it. My guess as to what the problem might be is that the US has essentially become a two-class society. One class has been thriving, while the other has been struggling since the first China shock. The US was open to trade and more neutral, while other countries pursued export-led growth industrial policies. This benefited one class, but the other is increasingly relying on basic income financed by debt. The thing is, Trump and Musk are clearly benefiting from an overvalued dollar and a trade deficit. Why would they change a system that is working so well for them? They might end up changing it accidentally by eroding trust in US reliability (also w.r.t. US creditworthiness), but that could be catastrophic and ultimately benefit no one.

pfdietz 2y ago

I think it comes from Trump being a con man? The last thing he wants to be is the chump being taken advantage of. That's the other side of the table.

jleyank 2y ago
Also, each transaction seems to be independent - no history and no concern about the future. Thus, there's no "lose one to win two" kind of thinking. And as everything has to be a win-lose, the US will be a last-resort kind of player for others.
libertine 2y ago
What advantage are you speaking of? Do you realize that for example China trying to have access to Ports and Military bases is massive endeavor. For example, Russia losing Syria and its ports and airbases is one of the biggest blunders in modern History. Yet you have the idea that US power projection and getting free access to bases and ports is being a "chump being taken advantage of"! It's not the other side of the table, it's ignorance. You can make the case that it isn't valuable, but Russia and China sure as hell are trying hard to get these perks, and they will fill the void.
- pfdietz 2y ago
  > What advantage are you speaking of? Defensive alliances where the cost is on the US and the benefit is on the other side. Scientific research, where the benefit is spread across the world but the cost is here. CO2 emission control, where the benefit is global and the cost is local.
  - Herring 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - pfdietz 2y ago
      I'm struggling to understand the point you're trying to make there. Is there any content at all in your comment?
      - Herring 2y ago
        [flagged]
        pfdietz 2y ago
        Again, where is the actual statement of a position there? You are implying something, but you aren't actually saying anything.
  - libertine 2y ago
    I'm sorry, but these are further ignorant takes. You'd rather have nuclear proliferation and US trying to defend itself from any country that can have the capacity to wipe out the US? Or the US, a country that had terrorist attacks like 9/11, being deprived of intelligence, and support from allies that allowed the US to extend their reach and logistics? As for the scientific research, are you talking about the mRNA vaccines developed in Germany, to which the US had a privileged access too? Like how much ignorance will you continue to display in this thread, and to what objective? Please get some help from a LLM or something like that, I won't even ask you to do a Google search. It's like all your opinions on the matter are acquired from podcasts like Joe Rogan who were pushing Trump and Russian propaganda - it's called podcast knowledge.
    - pfdietz 2y ago
      Yes, this position implies substantial nuclear proliferation. Even those much to the left of Trump are calling for this (granted, because of Trump's actions). https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/japan-south-korea-and-poland-need https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/japan-south-korea-and-poland-n... > As for the scientific research, are you talking about the mRNA vaccines developed in Germany, to which the US had a privileged access too? The point of this position is that the US has access to these scientific results regardless of what the US spends on science. Scientific results are positive externalities. The position is one of free riding on the efforts of others, rather than the opposite. > Like how much ignorance will you continue to display in this thread What ignorance is that, specifically? Also, my describing a position is not advocating that position. Have I stated I agree with it?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

tobias3 2y ago

It is going horribly wrong at the moment, and I don't think the people in charge have any idea of what's going wrong, why they were elected, or how to fix it. My guess as to what the problem might be is that the US has essentially become a two-class society. One class has been thriving, while the other has been struggling since the first China shock. The US was open to trade and more neutral, while other countries pursued export-led growth industrial policies. This benefited one class, but the other is increasingly relying on basic income financed by debt. The thing is, Trump and Musk are clearly benefiting from an overvalued dollar and a trade deficit. Why would they change a system that is working so well for them? They might end up changing it accidentally by eroding trust in US reliability (also w.r.t. US creditworthiness), but that could be catastrophic and ultimately benefit no one.