6 ms·

Show HN: Fast Transition from Firefox to Librewolf

78 points by biomcgary 2y ago

After looking at various browser alternatives to Firefox (my daily driver for years), I decided to try LibreWolf and the transition was trivial on a Debian based system (by HN standards). My extensions even ran without logging in (YMMV). First install LibreWolf: sudo apt update && sudo apt install extrepo -y sudo extrepo enable librewolf sudo apt update && sudo apt install librewolf -y Second: After closing Firefox, copy Firefox profile (in ~/.mozilla/firefox/) to Librevox profile (in ~/.librewolf/). Note: I copied the profile into the default profile (as seen in about:profiles) not default-default. I then launched the profile and all my tabs were restored, bookmarks, logins, etc. I will update if something seems broken.

sshine 2y ago
Sounds great. Related: Self-Hosting a Firefox Sync Server https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43214294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43214294
28304283409234 2y ago
Do note that LW deletes all cookies upon exit. This default setting can be changed of course, but it tripped me up.
- _benj 2y ago
  It tripped me up too initially, but they added a nice workaround to it so one doesn't need to disable the deleting cookies completely. On the pages where you want to stay logged in like in HN, click the lock icon left of the URL and toggle "LibreWolf: Always store cookies/data for this site" and that's it. There's certainly something refreshing about knowing exactly for which sites I'm storing cookies (so far kagi, HN, gmail, YT...)
- rsolva 2y ago
  I found deleting all cookies upon exit to be really nice, in combination with a whitelist with some often used and trusted sites. The address/search bar is much more responsive and useful! I also adapted the practice of bookmarking anything and everything that I might want to find back later, throwing everything in one folder – only adding a few top-of-the head tags. It has become my second brain, and has made it super easy to fetch back stuff that I only vaguely remember. Cleaning out all my browser history after every exit really has changed my relationship with the address bar. Another way of looking at this method is as an antidote to ending up with hundreds of open tabs – I just bookmark it and close it, knowing I'll find it back later when I actually need it :)
- nicklaf 2y ago
  Interesting. This is actually behavior that I already prefer and enable in Firefox. It makes sense when you leave browser instances open for long periods of time (with multi-account containers for a large number of tabs that you save and restore the session of) and use a password manager to sign in when you do restart.
spudlyo 2y ago
If you're interested in moving over to LibreWolf, I also submitted a thread[0] to /r/LibreWolf for recent Firefox refugees asking for suggestions and comments on how people dealt with the transition. It has nearly 100 comments, and some good info. [0]:https://old.reddit.com/r/LibreWolf/comments/1j0ckr9/recent_firefox_refugees/ https://old.reddit.com/r/LibreWolf/comments/1j0ckr9/recent_f...
cookiengineer 2y ago
Careful with following these instructions, because the profile contains the user settings file. You are effectively nullifying librewolfs changes to the standard settings which are there to disable firefox's tracking/suggestion/analytics features. Just make sure to diff them at least or migrate the parts you want to keep.
- sgc 2y ago
  So I did the same thing of installing Waterfox and copying the profile over. In Waterfox, the telemetry remains disabled and cannot be activated even if you want to - the use of an existing FF profile does not enable them. I verified this by going through a howtogeek page[1] and verifying the active settings. [1] https://www.howtogeek.com/557929/how-to-see-and-disable-the-telemetry-data-firefox-collects-about-you/ https://www.howtogeek.com/557929/how-to-see-and-disable-the-...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
lazyeye 2y ago
Note: there is also the Mullvad browser which is based on the Tor browser (with the Tor bit removed). It works fine without a VPN. https://mullvad.net/en/browser https://mullvad.net/en/browser
diabllicseagull 2y ago
I had a bit of a failed transition while hoping for a fast one. I gave the app image for Macos a try. the available binaries are for Intel only, and 120Hz scrolling isn't working despite matching the final Firefox version to the point. I can't tell what else is missed out from Firefox. I didn't have much luck with the Homebrew version either. It doesn't run at all. Anyone got better luck on Mac?
- d3Xt3r 2y ago
  If you're on macOS, Floorp and Zen Browser are good alternatives.
- mediumsmart 2y ago
  I don’t know what 120hz scrolling is but it runs fine on intel Monterey default settings plus privacy badger. I wish privacy badger would work in Kagi's Orion.
  - ghostwords 2y ago
    I suggest expressing your support on their forum! https://orionfeedback.org/d/9535-extension-privacy-badger-broken-ios-orion https://orionfeedback.org/d/9535-extension-privacy-badger-br...
- dean2432 2y ago
  Lack of 120hz scrolling is a bummer, so LF feels somewhat sluggish on a macbook pro compared to other browsers.
DyslexicAtheist 2y ago
apt get install librewolf on sid currently fails when following the installation instructions from their website.
p_ing 2y ago
Librewolf isn't going to be practical for macOS users. It isn't signed appropriately and will not run unless you xattr -c on the app package. That's unfortunate. I'm not sure if an update will re-establish the macOS quarantine flags or not.
- rrr_oh_man 2y ago
  Why is that so? Any idea?
  - p_ing 2y ago
    Librewolf isn't signing the binary shipped via brew.
- ajdude 2y ago
  It looks like it's available on homebrew, so that may be a good workaround.
  - ranger_danger 2y ago
    for technical users yes. for grandma, absolutely not
  - p_ing 2y ago
    I installed it via brew only to find it wasn't signed. I'm going to assume that the binary in the dmg isn't signed, either.
e2le 2y ago
> sudo apt update && sudo apt install extrepo -y sudo extrepo enable librewolf sudo apt update && sudo apt install librewolf -y The problem, at least for me, is that it requires confidence and trust to give away what is root access to my system and my life and hope they don't intentionally or unintentionally abuse it (malware). I'm sure they are trustworthy people but I would be lying if I said it didn't fill me with anxiety.
- fph 2y ago
  There is a Flatpak, if you wish; as far as I understand it does not run code as root.
  - kiwijamo 2y ago
    Installing Flatpak itself requires root, which means it's adding just a little more attack surface just to use Flatpak. Not a big concern of mine but I can understand why some might prefer not to.
    - hedora 2y ago
      Also, until I hear otherwise, I’m assuming “the sandbox is still a lie” continues to hold: https://flatkill.org/2020/ https://flatkill.org/2020/ Though, that page says they at least try to make it not setuid root these days. Also relevant: https://xkcd.com/1200/ https://xkcd.com/1200/
      - fph 2y ago
        Interesting read! But from what I understand from the permissions reported in https://flathub.org/apps/io.gitlab.librewolf-community https://flathub.org/apps/io.gitlab.librewolf-community , the Librewolf flatpak does not have access to the user home folder, which is the main security issue reported in that page.
- kasabali 2y ago
  There was a tarball last time I looked.
neilv 2y ago
I'm considering moving to LibreWolf, and also promoting it in various ways, so some due diligence questions on my mind: 1. How responsive is LibreWolf to security updates? (Once Firefox pushes them out to users, how soon are LibreWolf users then also protected from the now-public vulnerabilities.) 2. Who maintains LibreWolf? Who is in position to vet Mozilla code, vet LibreWolf-specific code, modify, or release code? How are new people given these powers? What is the protection against bad actors on the team, or compromising people on the team? 3. Given some of the odd behavior in the last few years, is there a plan if, hypothetically, a Mozilla executive were to somehow cut off or sabotage LibreWolf? (For example, plan to pivot to doing a hard fork, while somehow assembling and vetting sufficient volunteers to make that viable? Or plan to rebase off some European or LatAm gov't-funded hard fork, while performing much the same third-party vetting&tweaking distro function as done now? Or plan to give up?) 4. Are there any thoughts on when it might make sense to get under the funding&governance umbrella of some tech public interest organization? 5. Any thoughts on moving to official Debian packages (e.g., a combination of the official Stable-track channels for something Firefox ESR-like, plus the Debian Backports channel for the latest browser features)? (Please note that these infosec questions aren't intended to reflect negative impressions of LibreWolf. The reason for asking is that there are positive impressions of LibreWolf, and these are some questions to consider when moving forward.)
- yesnomaybe 2y ago
  For no 1 - see https://librewolf.net/docs/faq/ https://librewolf.net/docs/faq/ looks like 3 days, sometimes same day
  - neilv 2y ago
    Thank you, that's unfortunate. (Incidentally, I like that their FAQ has some good questions and honest-seeming answers.) I think I've sometimes seen security update delays that bad from Tor Browser, but that's also bad there. I think the security update delay situation would need to be improved.
- eogrok 2y ago
  [dead]
jamesy0ung 2y ago
Side note: Why does Mozilla pay their CEO $6.9 million as of 2022 [0] while seemingly mismanaging their business? As a Firefox user, Mozilla feels like a hollow company with little impact, existing primarily to give Google the appearance of competition. This seems like just another example of Mozilla sabotaging themselves. [0] https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2022/mozilla-fdn-990-ty22-public-disclosure.pdf https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2022/mozilla-fdn-990...
yesnomaybe 2y ago
I've been using it on macOS for quite some time now, coming from Safari, and am really happy with it. I use homebrew like so: brew install librewolf --no-quarantine brew upgrade librewolf --no-quarantine After a bit of wrestling with a few per page settings, I have most websites running how I like them. I use Zoom Page WE to manage per page zoom levels, this alone was a game changer for me compared to Safari. I'm planning to fully switch to Linux someday which will probably be arch so I've done a test setup. I've installed the https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/librewolf-bin https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/librewolf-bin package and that worked equally well.
AlgebraFox 2y ago
This is a bad idea. I don't know if customization made by LibreWolf to protect your privacy would be undone by using Mozilla's version of the profiles.
vivzkestrel 2y ago
you don't even know who the person in charge of librewolf is or what their affiliations are and you want people to hop from Firefox to some random dude on the internet because you think they are trustworthy?
- AlgebraFox 2y ago
  But you would trust Mozilla who repeatedly betrayed it's users yet still lying Firefox is a private browser?
  - vivzkestrel 2y ago
    they are accountable. Something goes wrong, atleast you know who to sue compared to this random dude who could steal all your crypto private keys tomorrow because you were busy using his browser. If you going to make an open source project especially a browser, I would prefer a person who is not anonymous
    - BizarroLand 2y ago
      Then why should we trust you over a person who is trusted by tens of thousands of people? You are also essentially anonymous. You've been on this site for 8 years with 300 karma. How do we know you didn't sell your account or farm it to generate dissent? (Example of how easy it is to discredit someone)
      - vivzkestrel 2y ago
        i am not making a browser but this guy is. you are downloading it on your machine, running your entire digital life via this guy. Even if the code is open source, have you actually read through everything to see if there is a backdoor of some kind. Bank accounts, ids, crypto wallet keys, just imagine all the things that are going through this person. If the guy is a good actor, no worries. Think of your course of action if the guy turns out to be a bad actor. You wouldn't even know who to sue
- kbelder 2y ago
benzesandbetter 2y ago
> If you know CSS, you also know the style framework. If you understand JavaScript, TypeScript is not a big problem for you. And that makes you a Senior or Principal. Mastery of the languages/frameworks you're working in does not make some a Senior or Principal. While deep expertise in a language is important, true senior and principal engineers combine this mastery with many other skills. They demonstrate strong architectural knowledge, guide and mentor others, and champion best practices. They communicate effectively with colleagues and partners of various levels and roles. They take ownership of complex initiatives end to end, balancing near-term needs with long-term goals. Their value lies in how they combine technical excellence with leadership, problem-solving, and the ability to align technology decisions to broader business objectives.
- croisillon 2y ago
  did you mean to comment here? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43227303 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43227303
hulitu 2y ago
> Show HN: Fast Transition from Firefox to Librewolf Librewolf is still connecting to e100.net.
programmer_dude 2y ago
FWIW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyjiOBWH91s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyjiOBWH91s The lead maintainer OHFP is quite the character. I think Librewolf is hosed. I am not gonna touch it with a 10 foot pole.
- BizarroLand 2y ago
  I mean, at the same time, a quick perusal of lunduke shows a pattern of jumping on hatewagons to drive clicks. Not judging the morality of this practice, rather saying that if like me you dislike that practice in general then listening to the hate rants of companies that hatewagon for clicks may influence you in a way you would rather not be influenced.

78 points by biomcgary 2y ago

sshine 2y ago

Sounds great. Related: Self-Hosting a Firefox Sync Server https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43214294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43214294

28304283409234 2y ago

Do note that LW deletes all cookies upon exit. This default setting can be changed of course, but it tripped me up.

_benj 2y ago
It tripped me up too initially, but they added a nice workaround to it so one doesn't need to disable the deleting cookies completely. On the pages where you want to stay logged in like in HN, click the lock icon left of the URL and toggle "LibreWolf: Always store cookies/data for this site" and that's it. There's certainly something refreshing about knowing exactly for which sites I'm storing cookies (so far kagi, HN, gmail, YT...)
rsolva 2y ago
I found deleting all cookies upon exit to be really nice, in combination with a whitelist with some often used and trusted sites. The address/search bar is much more responsive and useful! I also adapted the practice of bookmarking anything and everything that I might want to find back later, throwing everything in one folder – only adding a few top-of-the head tags. It has become my second brain, and has made it super easy to fetch back stuff that I only vaguely remember. Cleaning out all my browser history after every exit really has changed my relationship with the address bar. Another way of looking at this method is as an antidote to ending up with hundreds of open tabs – I just bookmark it and close it, knowing I'll find it back later when I actually need it :)
nicklaf 2y ago
Interesting. This is actually behavior that I already prefer and enable in Firefox. It makes sense when you leave browser instances open for long periods of time (with multi-account containers for a large number of tabs that you save and restore the session of) and use a password manager to sign in when you do restart.

spudlyo 2y ago

If you're interested in moving over to LibreWolf, I also submitted a thread[0] to /r/LibreWolf for recent Firefox refugees asking for suggestions and comments on how people dealt with the transition. It has nearly 100 comments, and some good info. [0]:https://old.reddit.com/r/LibreWolf/comments/1j0ckr9/recent_firefox_refugees/ https://old.reddit.com/r/LibreWolf/comments/1j0ckr9/recent_f...

cookiengineer 2y ago

Careful with following these instructions, because the profile contains the user settings file. You are effectively nullifying librewolfs changes to the standard settings which are there to disable firefox's tracking/suggestion/analytics features. Just make sure to diff them at least or migrate the parts you want to keep.

sgc 2y ago
So I did the same thing of installing Waterfox and copying the profile over. In Waterfox, the telemetry remains disabled and cannot be activated even if you want to - the use of an existing FF profile does not enable them. I verified this by going through a howtogeek page[1] and verifying the active settings. [1] https://www.howtogeek.com/557929/how-to-see-and-disable-the-telemetry-data-firefox-collects-about-you/ https://www.howtogeek.com/557929/how-to-see-and-disable-the-...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

lazyeye 2y ago

Note: there is also the Mullvad browser which is based on the Tor browser (with the Tor bit removed). It works fine without a VPN. https://mullvad.net/en/browser https://mullvad.net/en/browser

diabllicseagull 2y ago

I had a bit of a failed transition while hoping for a fast one. I gave the app image for Macos a try. the available binaries are for Intel only, and 120Hz scrolling isn't working despite matching the final Firefox version to the point. I can't tell what else is missed out from Firefox. I didn't have much luck with the Homebrew version either. It doesn't run at all. Anyone got better luck on Mac?

d3Xt3r 2y ago
If you're on macOS, Floorp and Zen Browser are good alternatives.
mediumsmart 2y ago
I don’t know what 120hz scrolling is but it runs fine on intel Monterey default settings plus privacy badger. I wish privacy badger would work in Kagi's Orion.
- ghostwords 2y ago
  I suggest expressing your support on their forum! https://orionfeedback.org/d/9535-extension-privacy-badger-broken-ios-orion https://orionfeedback.org/d/9535-extension-privacy-badger-br...
dean2432 2y ago
Lack of 120hz scrolling is a bummer, so LF feels somewhat sluggish on a macbook pro compared to other browsers.

DyslexicAtheist 2y ago

apt get install librewolf on sid currently fails when following the installation instructions from their website.

p_ing 2y ago

Librewolf isn't going to be practical for macOS users. It isn't signed appropriately and will not run unless you xattr -c on the app package. That's unfortunate. I'm not sure if an update will re-establish the macOS quarantine flags or not.

rrr_oh_man 2y ago
Why is that so? Any idea?
- p_ing 2y ago
  Librewolf isn't signing the binary shipped via brew.
ajdude 2y ago
It looks like it's available on homebrew, so that may be a good workaround.
- ranger_danger 2y ago
  for technical users yes. for grandma, absolutely not
- p_ing 2y ago
  I installed it via brew only to find it wasn't signed. I'm going to assume that the binary in the dmg isn't signed, either.

e2le 2y ago

> sudo apt update && sudo apt install extrepo -y sudo extrepo enable librewolf sudo apt update && sudo apt install librewolf -y The problem, at least for me, is that it requires confidence and trust to give away what is root access to my system and my life and hope they don't intentionally or unintentionally abuse it (malware). I'm sure they are trustworthy people but I would be lying if I said it didn't fill me with anxiety.

fph 2y ago
There is a Flatpak, if you wish; as far as I understand it does not run code as root.
- kiwijamo 2y ago
  Installing Flatpak itself requires root, which means it's adding just a little more attack surface just to use Flatpak. Not a big concern of mine but I can understand why some might prefer not to.
  - hedora 2y ago
    Also, until I hear otherwise, I’m assuming “the sandbox is still a lie” continues to hold: https://flatkill.org/2020/ https://flatkill.org/2020/ Though, that page says they at least try to make it not setuid root these days. Also relevant: https://xkcd.com/1200/ https://xkcd.com/1200/
    - fph 2y ago
      Interesting read! But from what I understand from the permissions reported in https://flathub.org/apps/io.gitlab.librewolf-community https://flathub.org/apps/io.gitlab.librewolf-community , the Librewolf flatpak does not have access to the user home folder, which is the main security issue reported in that page.
kasabali 2y ago
There was a tarball last time I looked.

neilv 2y ago

I'm considering moving to LibreWolf, and also promoting it in various ways, so some due diligence questions on my mind: 1. How responsive is LibreWolf to security updates? (Once Firefox pushes them out to users, how soon are LibreWolf users then also protected from the now-public vulnerabilities.) 2. Who maintains LibreWolf? Who is in position to vet Mozilla code, vet LibreWolf-specific code, modify, or release code? How are new people given these powers? What is the protection against bad actors on the team, or compromising people on the team? 3. Given some of the odd behavior in the last few years, is there a plan if, hypothetically, a Mozilla executive were to somehow cut off or sabotage LibreWolf? (For example, plan to pivot to doing a hard fork, while somehow assembling and vetting sufficient volunteers to make that viable? Or plan to rebase off some European or LatAm gov't-funded hard fork, while performing much the same third-party vetting&tweaking distro function as done now? Or plan to give up?) 4. Are there any thoughts on when it might make sense to get under the funding&governance umbrella of some tech public interest organization? 5. Any thoughts on moving to official Debian packages (e.g., a combination of the official Stable-track channels for something Firefox ESR-like, plus the Debian Backports channel for the latest browser features)? (Please note that these infosec questions aren't intended to reflect negative impressions of LibreWolf. The reason for asking is that there are positive impressions of LibreWolf, and these are some questions to consider when moving forward.)

yesnomaybe 2y ago
For no 1 - see https://librewolf.net/docs/faq/ https://librewolf.net/docs/faq/ looks like 3 days, sometimes same day
- neilv 2y ago
  Thank you, that's unfortunate. (Incidentally, I like that their FAQ has some good questions and honest-seeming answers.) I think I've sometimes seen security update delays that bad from Tor Browser, but that's also bad there. I think the security update delay situation would need to be improved.
eogrok 2y ago
[dead]

jamesy0ung 2y ago

Side note: Why does Mozilla pay their CEO $6.9 million as of 2022 [0] while seemingly mismanaging their business? As a Firefox user, Mozilla feels like a hollow company with little impact, existing primarily to give Google the appearance of competition. This seems like just another example of Mozilla sabotaging themselves. [0] https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2022/mozilla-fdn-990-ty22-public-disclosure.pdf https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2022/mozilla-fdn-990...

yesnomaybe 2y ago

I've been using it on macOS for quite some time now, coming from Safari, and am really happy with it. I use homebrew like so: brew install librewolf --no-quarantine brew upgrade librewolf --no-quarantine After a bit of wrestling with a few per page settings, I have most websites running how I like them. I use Zoom Page WE to manage per page zoom levels, this alone was a game changer for me compared to Safari. I'm planning to fully switch to Linux someday which will probably be arch so I've done a test setup. I've installed the https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/librewolf-bin https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/librewolf-bin package and that worked equally well.

AlgebraFox 2y ago

This is a bad idea. I don't know if customization made by LibreWolf to protect your privacy would be undone by using Mozilla's version of the profiles.

vivzkestrel 2y ago

you don't even know who the person in charge of librewolf is or what their affiliations are and you want people to hop from Firefox to some random dude on the internet because you think they are trustworthy?

AlgebraFox 2y ago
But you would trust Mozilla who repeatedly betrayed it's users yet still lying Firefox is a private browser?
- vivzkestrel 2y ago
  they are accountable. Something goes wrong, atleast you know who to sue compared to this random dude who could steal all your crypto private keys tomorrow because you were busy using his browser. If you going to make an open source project especially a browser, I would prefer a person who is not anonymous
  - BizarroLand 2y ago
    Then why should we trust you over a person who is trusted by tens of thousands of people? You are also essentially anonymous. You've been on this site for 8 years with 300 karma. How do we know you didn't sell your account or farm it to generate dissent? (Example of how easy it is to discredit someone)
    - vivzkestrel 2y ago
      i am not making a browser but this guy is. you are downloading it on your machine, running your entire digital life via this guy. Even if the code is open source, have you actually read through everything to see if there is a backdoor of some kind. Bank accounts, ids, crypto wallet keys, just imagine all the things that are going through this person. If the guy is a good actor, no worries. Think of your course of action if the guy turns out to be a bad actor. You wouldn't even know who to sue
kbelder 2y ago

benzesandbetter 2y ago

> If you know CSS, you also know the style framework. If you understand JavaScript, TypeScript is not a big problem for you. And that makes you a Senior or Principal. Mastery of the languages/frameworks you're working in does not make some a Senior or Principal. While deep expertise in a language is important, true senior and principal engineers combine this mastery with many other skills. They demonstrate strong architectural knowledge, guide and mentor others, and champion best practices. They communicate effectively with colleagues and partners of various levels and roles. They take ownership of complex initiatives end to end, balancing near-term needs with long-term goals. Their value lies in how they combine technical excellence with leadership, problem-solving, and the ability to align technology decisions to broader business objectives.

croisillon 2y ago
did you mean to comment here? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43227303 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43227303

hulitu 2y ago

> Show HN: Fast Transition from Firefox to Librewolf Librewolf is still connecting to e100.net.

programmer_dude 2y ago

FWIW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyjiOBWH91s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyjiOBWH91s The lead maintainer OHFP is quite the character. I think Librewolf is hosed. I am not gonna touch it with a 10 foot pole.

BizarroLand 2y ago
I mean, at the same time, a quick perusal of lunduke shows a pattern of jumping on hatewagons to drive clicks. Not judging the morality of this practice, rather saying that if like me you dislike that practice in general then listening to the hate rants of companies that hatewagon for clicks may influence you in a way you would rather not be influenced.