3 ms·

Fussell’s Class (1983) covers some of this. His upper-middle (in class—income tends to track with these social classes, but not always) are accustomed to very f

Fussell’s Class (1983) covers some of this. His upper-middle (in class—income tends to track with these social classes, but not always) are accustomed to very free lifestyles relative to, especially, the middle class (or the lower two tiers of his multifaceted “prole” class—the upper tier of that class does stuff like own successful plumbing or welding businesses, not work at Wal Mart or whatever) A major class marker distinguishing the upper-middle from the middle ends up being that the former are barely surveilled, largely free to set their own schedule, and basically are trusted to do the right thing (never mind that perfectly ordinary behavior patterns from them would be regarded as instantly fireable for others; it’s a different standard), while the middle gets constant status reports, return to office mandates, stricter start and stop times, maybe drug tests. (The actual upper class, of course, simply don’t meaningfully have managers at all) You know that older, expert manager everyone says is great that they bring in to run the business in the show Silicon Valley? Who spends a bunch of his time ignoring the place to breed horses or whatever, and seems to think that’s normal and fine? That’s this kind of thing. He doesn’t even get why that might be wrong, or why it might be shitty to take a big paycheck and ask hard work from others then fuck off to a rich-dude hobby half the time—that’s just what his kind of people do.

lostlogin 2y ago
It’s funny how often Silicon Valley (the tv show) gets referenced. There are so many painfully accurate cliches.
PaulHoule 2y ago
Class is a really great book, as is are most of the books that Paul Fussell wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Fussell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Fussell
- alabastervlog 2y ago
  I can't speak from personal experience to the accuracy of some of his characterizations, but he nailed the ones that (I now see) form parts of my background and are common in my family: various levels of "prole", plus "middle". It was really weird to see our quirks of behavior and taste (some of which I'd never have noticed if not for the book) dissected and analyzed that way, but fun and gave me new ways of looking at all of it. I've found his upper-middle and upper class descriptions constantly useful for deepening my insight into media, the news, work-life, and even history. Usually in small ways, but it's still pretty cool. Class markers are everywhere in media, and a lot of it I was surely noticing subconsciously, but being aware of them and able to point out many elements of them is a different experience. It's like seeing into the minds of the set designers, costume designers, and actors.
  - abnercoimbre 2y ago
    Awareness in general is already worthwhile, but has it been useful for other things? E.g. Changing your views on government labor policy, worker-friendly laws, etc.
    - alabastervlog 2y ago
      It's led to a few things: 1) I've developed a vague notion that much of the last 3-4 decades has, along with other (mostly bad) social, political, and economic changes in the time after trust-busting got neutered in the 1970s and Reaganism and neoliberalism took over (RIP neoliberalism, at least on one side of the aisle, LOL, glad to see you finally go even if the rest of that's all a shit-show) has been a kind of one-sided upper-middle civil war. It sure looks like the finance guys (solidly part of that class, for the most part) teamed up with the professional managerial class (the least-solidly part of that class, of the major traditional categories therein) to do their best to shove doctors, academics, and to some extent lawyers, down into the Middle, with no organized resistance on the other side. 2) I see a lot of how programmers are treated through this lens. Companies seem extremely reluctant to give programmers upper-middle perks. I think #1 is part of why: managers really, really don't want to mint a new upper-middle cohort even as they're busy clearing the field for only themselves and finance bros, and programmers (lots of us, at least) have the income to be there, but sit in a weird half-in-half-out for the upper middle, because we've mostly been denied things like private offices and certain other liberties, and subjected to micromanagement and humiliating hazing-ritual hiring processes, even as incomes soar and the snacks are good or whatever. Socially we are firmly "under" even a lot of other parts of companies that make less money, and part of that's come through cultivation of certain attitudes about programmers, and denial of "higher" perks. Beyond that I was already pretty firmly on the side of stronger labor, better labor protection laws, and far more unionization, and Class didn't take me any farther from those things. I read his optimism for his supposed "Class X" and the plain fact that none of that turned out to be what he thought it was as, if anything, another reason to be for the above. Organization and force (read broadly, I don't necessarily mean stuff like "hitting people") will get us to a better place, not hoping to be saved by a social movement.
lurk2 2y ago
> A major class marker distinguishing the upper-middle from the middle ends up being that the former are barely surveilled, largely free to set their own schedule, and basically are trusted to do the right thing (never mind that perfectly ordinary behavior patterns from them would be regarded as instantly fireable for others; it’s a different standard), while the middle gets constant status reports, return to office mandates, stricter start and stop times, maybe drug tests. When I was having trouble finding work this was one of my biggest issues. I was qualified to be working independently but all the entry-level work I could find would have involved being treated like I was in high school again, whereas before I could use the afternoon to tinker or read and no one cared as long as my work was getting done. This is why office jobs end up being coveted to the point that a university graduate will be making the same amount working an office job as a retail associate at a Walmart.

lostlogin 2y ago

It’s funny how often Silicon Valley (the tv show) gets referenced. There are so many painfully accurate cliches.

PaulHoule 2y ago

Class is a really great book, as is are most of the books that Paul Fussell wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Fussell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Fussell

alabastervlog 2y ago
I can't speak from personal experience to the accuracy of some of his characterizations, but he nailed the ones that (I now see) form parts of my background and are common in my family: various levels of "prole", plus "middle". It was really weird to see our quirks of behavior and taste (some of which I'd never have noticed if not for the book) dissected and analyzed that way, but fun and gave me new ways of looking at all of it. I've found his upper-middle and upper class descriptions constantly useful for deepening my insight into media, the news, work-life, and even history. Usually in small ways, but it's still pretty cool. Class markers are everywhere in media, and a lot of it I was surely noticing subconsciously, but being aware of them and able to point out many elements of them is a different experience. It's like seeing into the minds of the set designers, costume designers, and actors.
- abnercoimbre 2y ago
  Awareness in general is already worthwhile, but has it been useful for other things? E.g. Changing your views on government labor policy, worker-friendly laws, etc.
  - alabastervlog 2y ago
    It's led to a few things: 1) I've developed a vague notion that much of the last 3-4 decades has, along with other (mostly bad) social, political, and economic changes in the time after trust-busting got neutered in the 1970s and Reaganism and neoliberalism took over (RIP neoliberalism, at least on one side of the aisle, LOL, glad to see you finally go even if the rest of that's all a shit-show) has been a kind of one-sided upper-middle civil war. It sure looks like the finance guys (solidly part of that class, for the most part) teamed up with the professional managerial class (the least-solidly part of that class, of the major traditional categories therein) to do their best to shove doctors, academics, and to some extent lawyers, down into the Middle, with no organized resistance on the other side. 2) I see a lot of how programmers are treated through this lens. Companies seem extremely reluctant to give programmers upper-middle perks. I think #1 is part of why: managers really, really don't want to mint a new upper-middle cohort even as they're busy clearing the field for only themselves and finance bros, and programmers (lots of us, at least) have the income to be there, but sit in a weird half-in-half-out for the upper middle, because we've mostly been denied things like private offices and certain other liberties, and subjected to micromanagement and humiliating hazing-ritual hiring processes, even as incomes soar and the snacks are good or whatever. Socially we are firmly "under" even a lot of other parts of companies that make less money, and part of that's come through cultivation of certain attitudes about programmers, and denial of "higher" perks. Beyond that I was already pretty firmly on the side of stronger labor, better labor protection laws, and far more unionization, and Class didn't take me any farther from those things. I read his optimism for his supposed "Class X" and the plain fact that none of that turned out to be what he thought it was as, if anything, another reason to be for the above. Organization and force (read broadly, I don't necessarily mean stuff like "hitting people") will get us to a better place, not hoping to be saved by a social movement.

lurk2 2y ago

> A major class marker distinguishing the upper-middle from the middle ends up being that the former are barely surveilled, largely free to set their own schedule, and basically are trusted to do the right thing (never mind that perfectly ordinary behavior patterns from them would be regarded as instantly fireable for others; it’s a different standard), while the middle gets constant status reports, return to office mandates, stricter start and stop times, maybe drug tests. When I was having trouble finding work this was one of my biggest issues. I was qualified to be working independently but all the entry-level work I could find would have involved being treated like I was in high school again, whereas before I could use the afternoon to tinker or read and no one cared as long as my work was getting done. This is why office jobs end up being coveted to the point that a university graduate will be making the same amount working an office job as a retail associate at a Walmart.