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Those pushing the new approach would argue we never left the non-cooperative setting, we just set ourselves up to be exploited. A great deal of what Trump is d

Those pushing the new approach would argue we never left the non-cooperative setting, we just set ourselves up to be exploited. A great deal of what Trump is doing can be understood this way. Things that are being done for the "greater good" are perceived as setting the US to be the sucker, paying for benefits accruing mostly to others.

eightysixfour 2y ago
I would love to talk to someone/read someone's content who is seriously thoughtful and believes this to be the truth. Even the "best" content I can find does not thoroughly describe to me what they think the world looks like if they're successful in tearing down the current system.
libertine 2y ago
How is the perception of US being the sucker while being the most prosperous Nation at the same time? It's one of the most absurd takes. Like, why do you think the US had privileged access to deals, and had a welcoming seat at the table? Countries were forced to do it? Or you think that the US, of all countries, was being gullible and extorted all while amassing wealth? It's funny that the demise of the US came finally at the hand of Russian propaganda, and ignorance will make sure that it will come through.
- pfdietz 2y ago
  I think it comes from Trump being a con man? The last thing he wants to be is the chump being taken advantage of. That's the other side of the table.
  - jleyank 2y ago
    Also, each transaction seems to be independent - no history and no concern about the future. Thus, there's no "lose one to win two" kind of thinking. And as everything has to be a win-lose, the US will be a last-resort kind of player for others.
  - libertine 2y ago
    What advantage are you speaking of? Do you realize that for example China trying to have access to Ports and Military bases is massive endeavor. For example, Russia losing Syria and its ports and airbases is one of the biggest blunders in modern History. Yet you have the idea that US power projection and getting free access to bases and ports is being a "chump being taken advantage of"! It's not the other side of the table, it's ignorance. You can make the case that it isn't valuable, but Russia and China sure as hell are trying hard to get these perks, and they will fill the void.
    - pfdietz 2y ago
      > What advantage are you speaking of? Defensive alliances where the cost is on the US and the benefit is on the other side. Scientific research, where the benefit is spread across the world but the cost is here. CO2 emission control, where the benefit is global and the cost is local.
      - Herring 2y ago
        [flagged]
        pfdietz 2y ago
        I'm struggling to understand the point you're trying to make there. Is there any content at all in your comment?
        Herring 2y ago
        [flagged]
        pfdietz 2y ago
        Again, where is the actual statement of a position there? You are implying something, but you aren't actually saying anything.
      - 2y ago
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- tobias3 2y ago
  It is going horribly wrong at the moment, and I don't think the people in charge have any idea of what's going wrong, why they were elected, or how to fix it. My guess as to what the problem might be is that the US has essentially become a two-class society. One class has been thriving, while the other has been struggling since the first China shock. The US was open to trade and more neutral, while other countries pursued export-led growth industrial policies. This benefited one class, but the other is increasingly relying on basic income financed by debt. The thing is, Trump and Musk are clearly benefiting from an overvalued dollar and a trade deficit. Why would they change a system that is working so well for them? They might end up changing it accidentally by eroding trust in US reliability (also w.r.t. US creditworthiness), but that could be catastrophic and ultimately benefit no one.
jleyank 2y ago
Well, the US "took their losses" but made the US Dollar the reserve currency. If they toss this away, they'll not "lose trade action" but they'll pay more to finance their debt.
- pfdietz 2y ago
  I'm expecting the end game will be a very substantial devaluation of the dollar. Lenders have helpfully lent the US government its own currency, so the debt can be inflated away. It will be hard to borrow again after that, but the GOP wouldn't mind making it hard for future US governments to borrow more money and thereby grow the government again.

eightysixfour 2y ago

I would love to talk to someone/read someone's content who is seriously thoughtful and believes this to be the truth. Even the "best" content I can find does not thoroughly describe to me what they think the world looks like if they're successful in tearing down the current system.

libertine 2y ago

How is the perception of US being the sucker while being the most prosperous Nation at the same time? It's one of the most absurd takes. Like, why do you think the US had privileged access to deals, and had a welcoming seat at the table? Countries were forced to do it? Or you think that the US, of all countries, was being gullible and extorted all while amassing wealth? It's funny that the demise of the US came finally at the hand of Russian propaganda, and ignorance will make sure that it will come through.

pfdietz 2y ago
I think it comes from Trump being a con man? The last thing he wants to be is the chump being taken advantage of. That's the other side of the table.
- jleyank 2y ago
  Also, each transaction seems to be independent - no history and no concern about the future. Thus, there's no "lose one to win two" kind of thinking. And as everything has to be a win-lose, the US will be a last-resort kind of player for others.
- libertine 2y ago
  What advantage are you speaking of? Do you realize that for example China trying to have access to Ports and Military bases is massive endeavor. For example, Russia losing Syria and its ports and airbases is one of the biggest blunders in modern History. Yet you have the idea that US power projection and getting free access to bases and ports is being a "chump being taken advantage of"! It's not the other side of the table, it's ignorance. You can make the case that it isn't valuable, but Russia and China sure as hell are trying hard to get these perks, and they will fill the void.
  - pfdietz 2y ago
    > What advantage are you speaking of? Defensive alliances where the cost is on the US and the benefit is on the other side. Scientific research, where the benefit is spread across the world but the cost is here. CO2 emission control, where the benefit is global and the cost is local.
    - Herring 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - pfdietz 2y ago
        I'm struggling to understand the point you're trying to make there. Is there any content at all in your comment?
        Herring 2y ago
        [flagged]
        pfdietz 2y ago
        Again, where is the actual statement of a position there? You are implying something, but you aren't actually saying anything.
    - 2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
tobias3 2y ago
It is going horribly wrong at the moment, and I don't think the people in charge have any idea of what's going wrong, why they were elected, or how to fix it. My guess as to what the problem might be is that the US has essentially become a two-class society. One class has been thriving, while the other has been struggling since the first China shock. The US was open to trade and more neutral, while other countries pursued export-led growth industrial policies. This benefited one class, but the other is increasingly relying on basic income financed by debt. The thing is, Trump and Musk are clearly benefiting from an overvalued dollar and a trade deficit. Why would they change a system that is working so well for them? They might end up changing it accidentally by eroding trust in US reliability (also w.r.t. US creditworthiness), but that could be catastrophic and ultimately benefit no one.

jleyank 2y ago

Well, the US "took their losses" but made the US Dollar the reserve currency. If they toss this away, they'll not "lose trade action" but they'll pay more to finance their debt.

pfdietz 2y ago
I'm expecting the end game will be a very substantial devaluation of the dollar. Lenders have helpfully lent the US government its own currency, so the debt can be inflated away. It will be hard to borrow again after that, but the GOP wouldn't mind making it hard for future US governments to borrow more money and thereby grow the government again.