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Manual binning is more than the "hack", it's the reason Reddit is successful and the reason why Digg will not be (unless they emulate). Manual binning does som

Manual binning is more than the "hack", it's the reason Reddit is successful and the reason why Digg will not be (unless they emulate). Manual binning does something magical: each bin is a separate community run by moderators. Each one has different rules, different posters, different content and different discussion. If you automatically sort into bins, then you will automatically lose the distinction between bins. You cannot get your users to respect the difference between communities if you are unwilling to show them that each community is different, and deserves individual attention. Sure, find a better algorithm for the front page and logged out users. But to destroy the autonomy of the subreddit would be to destroy the very thing that makes reddit successful.

huggyface 14y ago
Why do you think they can't coexist? In fact my actual suggestion is that they should coexist. But the "just subscribe appropriately" response is fundamentally broken, and only provides a partial solution. This approach absolutely benefits any subreddit as well.
- AlexanderZ 14y ago
  What exactly is fundamentally broken in subscribing to subreddits? If you are interested in fitness, you subscribe to /r/fitness. Fitness materials won't all of a sudden be posted to /r/gaming where you (if you are not subscribed) will miss them. So, what's the point of automatic recommendations on Reddit? If there is any fitness-related material on Reddit, I'll see it in /r/fitness anyway. Besides, how are you going to train the recommendation engine? By analyzing what submissions people upvoted?
  - sp332 14y ago
    This was already answered in this thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4323033 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4323033
  - huggyface 14y ago
    What exactly is fundamentally broken in subscribing to subreddits? "I like action movies" "Here's Megashark vs 747. You like action movies, so you like this" How is any given subreddit any different? Being into fitness does not mean you share an identical interest/taste/discernment with everyone else who is into fitness. Further social news sites are subject to the tyranny of the minority -- aka the lowest common denominator. When people are more likely to express approval than disapproval, a small percentage of users with a common interest will tend to dominate.
    - AlexanderZ 14y ago
      Being into fitness does not mean you share an identical interest/taste/discernment with everyone else who is into fitness. I think you are missing the point of subreddits. They are not for finding people that agree with you, they are for creating communities with all kinds of opinions. I go to /r/fitness exactly because I don't share most of the ideas there. I go there to learn something new. If I want to know everything that happens in the world of fitness, I subscribe to /r/fitness. With automatic recommendations (and without subscribing to /r/fitness) I'd never see stuff that I didn't know I was interested in. That's the problem with automatic recommendations - paradoxically, you can't discover new interests with their help. You can discover what's happening inside your sphere of interests, but you can't discover new interests.
      - huggyface 14y ago
        I'm not missing the point of subreddits at all, and I would suggest that you are so far down the rabbit hole of the cure all subreddit that you refuse to acknowledge the point. I have never said that subreddits should go away. Ever. Each post that again argues one versus the other is tossing up a distraction. They are not for finding people that agree with you Correlation isn't about agreement: An upvote does not mean "I agree with this". It means "I found this interesting/useful/enjoyable/educational", whereas a downvote should mean "I find this uninteresting/not useful/unenjoyable/not educational". In no universe does that preclude learning new things. Quite the contrary, in fact.
        14y ago
ceol 14y ago
Was it really the reason reddit is successful? Or was that a combination of the creation of imgur, reddit moderators allowing any and all meme posts (low-investment content) in most of their subreddits, and Digg's v4 disaster? Sure, there are users who adjust their subreddits, but (if I'm remembering this correctly) jedberg has stated the vast majority— some 90%— of users never make an account. I'm betting subreddits aren't the main reason reddit attracts so many people.
- betterth 14y ago
  The front page of Reddit that is seen by the 90% of lurkers is content from the top 20 subreddits by activity. They come to see the content that 20 individual communities curate. All content on Reddit -- all of it, comes from these individualized communities. Also the 90% number -- that's true of almost any site, it's the "1% Rule"[1] (or a rule by a number of other names). Instead of focusing on the 90% lurkers, realize that it's the 1% of creators and 9% of contributors that create/submit and curate the content that brings the 90% to the front page. So how do you attract the best 10%, the best curators, the best original creators? In my opinion: individual communities dedicated to any topic they choose. Decentralized power that makes the 90%'s front page nothing more than the best-of-the-biggest subreddits. Sure, many subreddits will not be worthy of the 90%'s front page -- but then again, many communities don't want on the front page (and the massive influx of 'eternal september' users that it brings!) Some subreddits, like /r/askscience, have over half a million users and maintain a rigid, empirical comment section that actively prevents layman speculation. Think about that, 600,000 users and they run a community with very little to no layman speculation. Other subreddits, like /r/f7u13 (or /r/circlejerk) run very anarchistic comment sections where ridiculousness is supported and mods abusing power is par the course. The beauty of Reddit is the freedom the subreddits have and the wonderful communities that create and curate the content that makes the 90%'s front page as good as it is. I do not understand how you can emulate the result of a strong, engaged community by preventing communities from forming at all. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture)
  - ceol 14y ago

huggyface 14y ago

Why do you think they can't coexist? In fact my actual suggestion is that they should coexist. But the "just subscribe appropriately" response is fundamentally broken, and only provides a partial solution. This approach absolutely benefits any subreddit as well.

AlexanderZ 14y ago
What exactly is fundamentally broken in subscribing to subreddits? If you are interested in fitness, you subscribe to /r/fitness. Fitness materials won't all of a sudden be posted to /r/gaming where you (if you are not subscribed) will miss them. So, what's the point of automatic recommendations on Reddit? If there is any fitness-related material on Reddit, I'll see it in /r/fitness anyway. Besides, how are you going to train the recommendation engine? By analyzing what submissions people upvoted?
- sp332 14y ago
  This was already answered in this thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4323033 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4323033
- huggyface 14y ago
  What exactly is fundamentally broken in subscribing to subreddits? "I like action movies" "Here's Megashark vs 747. You like action movies, so you like this" How is any given subreddit any different? Being into fitness does not mean you share an identical interest/taste/discernment with everyone else who is into fitness. Further social news sites are subject to the tyranny of the minority -- aka the lowest common denominator. When people are more likely to express approval than disapproval, a small percentage of users with a common interest will tend to dominate.
  - AlexanderZ 14y ago
    Being into fitness does not mean you share an identical interest/taste/discernment with everyone else who is into fitness. I think you are missing the point of subreddits. They are not for finding people that agree with you, they are for creating communities with all kinds of opinions. I go to /r/fitness exactly because I don't share most of the ideas there. I go there to learn something new. If I want to know everything that happens in the world of fitness, I subscribe to /r/fitness. With automatic recommendations (and without subscribing to /r/fitness) I'd never see stuff that I didn't know I was interested in. That's the problem with automatic recommendations - paradoxically, you can't discover new interests with their help. You can discover what's happening inside your sphere of interests, but you can't discover new interests.
    - huggyface 14y ago
      I'm not missing the point of subreddits at all, and I would suggest that you are so far down the rabbit hole of the cure all subreddit that you refuse to acknowledge the point. I have never said that subreddits should go away. Ever. Each post that again argues one versus the other is tossing up a distraction. They are not for finding people that agree with you Correlation isn't about agreement: An upvote does not mean "I agree with this". It means "I found this interesting/useful/enjoyable/educational", whereas a downvote should mean "I find this uninteresting/not useful/unenjoyable/not educational". In no universe does that preclude learning new things. Quite the contrary, in fact.
      - 14y ago

ceol 14y ago

Was it really the reason reddit is successful? Or was that a combination of the creation of imgur, reddit moderators allowing any and all meme posts (low-investment content) in most of their subreddits, and Digg's v4 disaster? Sure, there are users who adjust their subreddits, but (if I'm remembering this correctly) jedberg has stated the vast majority— some 90%— of users never make an account. I'm betting subreddits aren't the main reason reddit attracts so many people.

betterth 14y ago
The front page of Reddit that is seen by the 90% of lurkers is content from the top 20 subreddits by activity. They come to see the content that 20 individual communities curate. All content on Reddit -- all of it, comes from these individualized communities. Also the 90% number -- that's true of almost any site, it's the "1% Rule"[1] (or a rule by a number of other names). Instead of focusing on the 90% lurkers, realize that it's the 1% of creators and 9% of contributors that create/submit and curate the content that brings the 90% to the front page. So how do you attract the best 10%, the best curators, the best original creators? In my opinion: individual communities dedicated to any topic they choose. Decentralized power that makes the 90%'s front page nothing more than the best-of-the-biggest subreddits. Sure, many subreddits will not be worthy of the 90%'s front page -- but then again, many communities don't want on the front page (and the massive influx of 'eternal september' users that it brings!) Some subreddits, like /r/askscience, have over half a million users and maintain a rigid, empirical comment section that actively prevents layman speculation. Think about that, 600,000 users and they run a community with very little to no layman speculation. Other subreddits, like /r/f7u13 (or /r/circlejerk) run very anarchistic comment sections where ridiculousness is supported and mods abusing power is par the course. The beauty of Reddit is the freedom the subreddits have and the wonderful communities that create and curate the content that makes the 90%'s front page as good as it is. I do not understand how you can emulate the result of a strong, engaged community by preventing communities from forming at all. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture)
- ceol 14y ago