3 ms·

Your statements do not align with the reality of Firefox’s own words. They are trading/selling your data and they updated their ToS to reflect that. “ In order

Your statements do not align with the reality of Firefox’s own words. They are trading/selling your data and they updated their ToS to reflect that. “ In order to make Firefox commercially viable, there are a number of places where we collect and share some data with our partners, including our optional ads on New Tab and providing sponsored suggestions in the search bar” https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/update-on-terms-of-use/ https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/update-on-terms... This has been discussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43213612 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43213612

db48x 2y ago
But that has nothing to do with the new language that was added to the ToS, which states: > You give Mozilla the rights necessary to operate Firefox. This includes processing your data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice. It also includes a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license for the purpose of doing as you request with the content you input in Firefox. This does not give Mozilla any ownership in that content. This new license to the data that you enter into the browser is only for local operation of the browser itself, not for ads or sponsored suggestions. In addition to that license, they also use the words that you type into the urlbar or search box to customize the ads and search suggestions that you see. It is important to keep these two things separate, because only one of them is new. The other has been there for years.
- joeyh 2y ago
  Nothing in the ToU says this is local only or not for ads.
  - db48x 2y ago
    Of course it does. It explicitly says that the license is for “operating Firefox” and “for the purpose of doing as you request”. Not for improving it, or serving you ads, or for understanding your usage. Just for Firefox to follow your instructions. You type in a url, and it navigates to the url for you and saves it in your history. You type in some form data, and it submits it for you and saves it for later.
    - nickthegreek 2y ago
      > It explicitly says that the license is for “operating Firefox” and “for the purpose of doing as you request”. Not for improving it, or serving you ads, or for understanding your usage. It does not. That is explicitly stated as a subset of their rights. Before that sentence you might notice: “This includes processing your data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice.” So check the privacy notice and you find… “How we use data We use data to keep Firefox running smoothly, improve features and help sustain our business” So they can use the data in anyway that helps sustain the business.
      - alt227 2y ago
        > We use data to keep Firefox running smoothly, improve features and help sustain our business I would say that those 3 vaguely worded things pretty much cover them to use consumer data in any way they want.
        nickthegreek 2y ago
        Exactly.
      - eipi10_hn 2y ago
        Yes, their rights have 2 parts in their paragraph: 1. The data processed described in the Privacy Notice, 2. A nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license for the purpose of doing as you request with the content you input in Firefox. The 2nd is not the data they talk about in the 1st (a.k.a the Privacy Notice). The data they describe in the Privacy Notice in the 1st are not the data they have "nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license" in the 2nd. Don't mix 2 or these together.
        nickthegreek 2y ago
        Completely disagree with that interpretation of that language. Given the beginning sentence of “You give Mozilla the rights necessary to operate Firefox.” Operate Firefox is an extremely broad statement. It then goes to outline that means everything in their privacy notice (which then also includes even more broad language) and then exclusive, worldwide license. No good will or benefit of the doubt should be given to a terms of service like this. The changes here are an expansion of Firefox’s rights - therefor, a contracting of your own.

db48x 2y ago

But that has nothing to do with the new language that was added to the ToS, which states: > You give Mozilla the rights necessary to operate Firefox. This includes processing your data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice. It also includes a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license for the purpose of doing as you request with the content you input in Firefox. This does not give Mozilla any ownership in that content. This new license to the data that you enter into the browser is only for local operation of the browser itself, not for ads or sponsored suggestions. In addition to that license, they also use the words that you type into the urlbar or search box to customize the ads and search suggestions that you see. It is important to keep these two things separate, because only one of them is new. The other has been there for years.

joeyh 2y ago
Nothing in the ToU says this is local only or not for ads.
- db48x 2y ago
  Of course it does. It explicitly says that the license is for “operating Firefox” and “for the purpose of doing as you request”. Not for improving it, or serving you ads, or for understanding your usage. Just for Firefox to follow your instructions. You type in a url, and it navigates to the url for you and saves it in your history. You type in some form data, and it submits it for you and saves it for later.
  - nickthegreek 2y ago
    > It explicitly says that the license is for “operating Firefox” and “for the purpose of doing as you request”. Not for improving it, or serving you ads, or for understanding your usage. It does not. That is explicitly stated as a subset of their rights. Before that sentence you might notice: “This includes processing your data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice.” So check the privacy notice and you find… “How we use data We use data to keep Firefox running smoothly, improve features and help sustain our business” So they can use the data in anyway that helps sustain the business.
    - alt227 2y ago
      > We use data to keep Firefox running smoothly, improve features and help sustain our business I would say that those 3 vaguely worded things pretty much cover them to use consumer data in any way they want.
      - nickthegreek 2y ago
        Exactly.
    - eipi10_hn 2y ago
      Yes, their rights have 2 parts in their paragraph: 1. The data processed described in the Privacy Notice, 2. A nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license for the purpose of doing as you request with the content you input in Firefox. The 2nd is not the data they talk about in the 1st (a.k.a the Privacy Notice). The data they describe in the Privacy Notice in the 1st are not the data they have "nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license" in the 2nd. Don't mix 2 or these together.
      - nickthegreek 2y ago
        Completely disagree with that interpretation of that language. Given the beginning sentence of “You give Mozilla the rights necessary to operate Firefox.” Operate Firefox is an extremely broad statement. It then goes to outline that means everything in their privacy notice (which then also includes even more broad language) and then exclusive, worldwide license. No good will or benefit of the doubt should be given to a terms of service like this. The changes here are an expansion of Firefox’s rights - therefor, a contracting of your own.