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Has Germany had one of two major parties spending decades trying to undermine government to make it a self-fulfilling prophecy that government is bad by definit

Has Germany had one of two major parties spending decades trying to undermine government to make it a self-fulfilling prophecy that government is bad by definition? We are 45 years into an intentional effort to sabotage public services to convince people they don't work, to cut taxes for the wealthiest people who don't want to fund them

alephnerd 2y ago
Germany has issues as well becuase it's been a de facto austerity state since 2009 due to their debt break, but the American administrative structure is very different from Germany's, so it's an unfair comparison in either direction. The only countries remotely similar to the US might be Canada and Australia.
- skissane 2y ago
  > but the American administrative structure is very different from Germany's, so it's an unfair comparison either direction. > The only countries remotely similar to the US might be Canada and Australia. Like the US, Canada and Australia are federations - but Germany is too. Unlike the US, Canada, Australia and Germany all have parliamentary rather than presidential systems So I’m not sure what you are suggesting that Canada and Australia have in common with the US but Germany doesn’t (obviously English and a common law legal system, but I doubt either makes a big difference to government employment)
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    All federations aren't equal, and administrative procedures and laws are very distinct country to country. > but I doubt either makes a big difference to government employment It does, because employment law (and any other form of law) is largely built on top of a mixture of administrative policy acts along with past rulings and cases. Fundamentally, Germany and the US are not comparable becuase there are very significant differences between past case law along with administrative hiring procedures. IMO, the only large federations structurally comparable to Germany are probably Italy, and maybe France or Spain.
    - skissane 2y ago
      You suggested Australia and Canada have something in common with the US in this area that Germany doesn’t - but when challenged you can’t actually name anything specific, you just fall back on vague generalities > IMO, the only large federations structurally comparable to Germany are probably France and Italy. Unlike Australia/Canada/Germany/US (among others), neither France nor Italy are federations, both are unitary states with some degree of devolution (significantly more for Italy)
      - alephnerd 2y ago
        > You suggested Australia and Canada have something in common with the US in this area that Germany doesn’t - but when challenged you can’t actually name anything specific I didn't realize you explicitly asked for that. In this case, it's the English Law Tradition, and alignment between US and Canadian administrative norms as being part of the same common market. I recommend reading this paper about the differences in Administrative Procedure legislation (which includes federal employment rules and norms) in Germany versus the US [0] Fundamentally, "Germany has a tendency to underestimate the importance of the administrative decision-making process while the US takes the procedure more seriously" [0]. That along with Germany's juristic legal tradition becomes the crux of the issue when comparing Germany versus the US, becuase our precedents are entirely different, leading to different causes for dysfunction. In general, I think online Europeans need to stop comparing the US to their countries. The causes for our dysfunctions are different, and our entire legal, constitutional, and political traditions are VERY different because of a 300-500 year split. [0] - https://academic.oup.com/icon/article/11/4/940/698721 https://academic.oup.com/icon/article/11/4/940/698721
        skissane 2y ago
        > I recommend reading this paper about the differences in Administrative Procedure legislation (which includes federal employment rules and norms) in Germany versus the US [0] No, administrative procedure law (US APA, German VwVfG) is not the primary legal regime for government employees, they are governed by civil service law (e.g. the Bundesbeamtengesetz in Germany, Title 5 of the United States Code). > In general, I think online Europeans need to stop comparing the US to their countries. The causes for our dysfunctions are different, and our entire legal, constitutional, and political traditions are VERY different because of a 300-500 year split. The common law tradition, followed by the US and Canada, originates in Europe (England); among EU member states, Ireland’s legal system is completely based on common law, while Malta has a mixed legal system which combines Roman/French and English legal traditions. Such a mix is not unique to Malta, you can find a similar mix in Louisiana, Quebec, Scotland. Cyprus’ legal system is heavily based on English common law, but also with Ottoman and French influences (the French influence comes via Greece, since modern Greek law was modelled off France) In terms of political systems, Canada and Germany have a lot in common, both being parliamentary federations - yes one is a constitutional republic the other a monarchy, but that makes little difference in practice. The presidential system used in the US, while common in Latin America, is basically unheard of in Europe; although, the semipresidential system used in France can be viewed as a hybrid between an American-style presidential system and the parliamentary system which is the European norm So I think North Americans and Europeans have more in common in terms of political and legal traditions than you acknowledge

alephnerd 2y ago

Germany has issues as well becuase it's been a de facto austerity state since 2009 due to their debt break, but the American administrative structure is very different from Germany's, so it's an unfair comparison in either direction. The only countries remotely similar to the US might be Canada and Australia.

skissane 2y ago
> but the American administrative structure is very different from Germany's, so it's an unfair comparison either direction. > The only countries remotely similar to the US might be Canada and Australia. Like the US, Canada and Australia are federations - but Germany is too. Unlike the US, Canada, Australia and Germany all have parliamentary rather than presidential systems So I’m not sure what you are suggesting that Canada and Australia have in common with the US but Germany doesn’t (obviously English and a common law legal system, but I doubt either makes a big difference to government employment)
- alephnerd 2y ago
  All federations aren't equal, and administrative procedures and laws are very distinct country to country. > but I doubt either makes a big difference to government employment It does, because employment law (and any other form of law) is largely built on top of a mixture of administrative policy acts along with past rulings and cases. Fundamentally, Germany and the US are not comparable becuase there are very significant differences between past case law along with administrative hiring procedures. IMO, the only large federations structurally comparable to Germany are probably Italy, and maybe France or Spain.
  - skissane 2y ago
    You suggested Australia and Canada have something in common with the US in this area that Germany doesn’t - but when challenged you can’t actually name anything specific, you just fall back on vague generalities > IMO, the only large federations structurally comparable to Germany are probably France and Italy. Unlike Australia/Canada/Germany/US (among others), neither France nor Italy are federations, both are unitary states with some degree of devolution (significantly more for Italy)
    - alephnerd 2y ago
      > You suggested Australia and Canada have something in common with the US in this area that Germany doesn’t - but when challenged you can’t actually name anything specific I didn't realize you explicitly asked for that. In this case, it's the English Law Tradition, and alignment between US and Canadian administrative norms as being part of the same common market. I recommend reading this paper about the differences in Administrative Procedure legislation (which includes federal employment rules and norms) in Germany versus the US [0] Fundamentally, "Germany has a tendency to underestimate the importance of the administrative decision-making process while the US takes the procedure more seriously" [0]. That along with Germany's juristic legal tradition becomes the crux of the issue when comparing Germany versus the US, becuase our precedents are entirely different, leading to different causes for dysfunction. In general, I think online Europeans need to stop comparing the US to their countries. The causes for our dysfunctions are different, and our entire legal, constitutional, and political traditions are VERY different because of a 300-500 year split. [0] - https://academic.oup.com/icon/article/11/4/940/698721 https://academic.oup.com/icon/article/11/4/940/698721
      - skissane 2y ago
        > I recommend reading this paper about the differences in Administrative Procedure legislation (which includes federal employment rules and norms) in Germany versus the US [0] No, administrative procedure law (US APA, German VwVfG) is not the primary legal regime for government employees, they are governed by civil service law (e.g. the Bundesbeamtengesetz in Germany, Title 5 of the United States Code). > In general, I think online Europeans need to stop comparing the US to their countries. The causes for our dysfunctions are different, and our entire legal, constitutional, and political traditions are VERY different because of a 300-500 year split. The common law tradition, followed by the US and Canada, originates in Europe (England); among EU member states, Ireland’s legal system is completely based on common law, while Malta has a mixed legal system which combines Roman/French and English legal traditions. Such a mix is not unique to Malta, you can find a similar mix in Louisiana, Quebec, Scotland. Cyprus’ legal system is heavily based on English common law, but also with Ottoman and French influences (the French influence comes via Greece, since modern Greek law was modelled off France) In terms of political systems, Canada and Germany have a lot in common, both being parliamentary federations - yes one is a constitutional republic the other a monarchy, but that makes little difference in practice. The presidential system used in the US, while common in Latin America, is basically unheard of in Europe; although, the semipresidential system used in France can be viewed as a hybrid between an American-style presidential system and the parliamentary system which is the European norm So I think North Americans and Europeans have more in common in terms of political and legal traditions than you acknowledge