4 ms·

Can I suggest an experiment? Sergey could decide to be put in a shared cube farm for 6x 10s a week and see how long he lasts. I think there's a large differen

by zdw 2y ago

Can I suggest an experiment? Sergey could decide to be put in a shared cube farm for 6x 10s a week and see how long he lasts. I think there's a large difference between the fatigue invoked in work that is some variant of managerial "in meetings where it's low information hot takes 80% of the time" work, and actual engineering work where drafting design documents, working on code, and context switching while waiting for CI or other compute intensive processes to complete, or for folks to do a code review.

weinzierl 2y ago
This and take away his nannies, chauffeurs and other servants. Let his wife work a regular job too. If you are not privileged, running a family is another 40 hour a week job.
- Upvoter33 2y ago
  I mean, I take your point and even agree with you. But, to be fair, I'm sure Sergei worked 60+ hours/week when Google was starting.
  - cduzz 2y ago
    It's almost like how many hours a week a person can work on a thing depends on their ownership of the thing, their domestic situation, and their financial state.
    - piva00 2y ago
      Just to add: ownership and agency, I know a few startup founders who completely wrecked their mental health after accepting dumb money which took away their agency to pursue their vision while still having to work absurd hours.
    - drivingmenuts 2y ago
      Ah, but you see, Sergey cares about his company, not their company. Or their lives. Or their needs. Or their wants. He is Empire and he is what Matters.
  - Manfred 2y ago
    There is a difference between choosing to work 60 hours at your own startup with the prospect of a very large payout and being salaried at a giant company.
  - hdjjhhvvhga 2y ago
    I did the same for the projects I created or were fun for me. However, there is a limit and at some point you just hurt your body, some of it can be irreparable. You may not notice it when being younger but you will need to pay for that later.
- glimshe 2y ago
  To that let's add the stress of financial ruin or major setback in case he loses his job due to a competitive ratings-based "objective" perf review.
- soupfordummies 2y ago
  feed the cat do the laundry clean the toilet sweep the floor buy the groceries pay the bills call the cable company change the oil in the car water the plants take out the trash scoop the litterbox file your taxes cook dinner do the dishes make a dentist appointment mow the lawn go to the post office buy your brother a birthday gift change the sheets fix the lightswitch unclog the shower get the brakes fixed on the car get the car washed clean out the gutters…
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago
    Chores are holidays when you got work and kids...
falcor84 2y ago
I would argue that the difference is not as much in the type of activities, but rather in your ownership and control over them. When it's "your" project and you decide how to do things (at most with feedback from a handful of others whom you all know personally), then you can be extremely productive and motivated working even more than 60h/week for months.
- zdw 2y ago
  This is valid, when you're not encumbered by a process or person that has to have input on your every move, you can be very productive. As someone who actually really likes process, if you want to encourage some sort of best practice without causing pain, you absolutely must automate the process and not put people in the critical path. For example, if you have a coding standard make sure that linters that are fast and cheerful enforce it, not other people. Also, I don't agree with the "months" - maybe a weekend or whole week, but other than that you're headed into burnout territory.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
  This is not true. Even if it is your project. For a regular person without all the paid support systems (maids, cooks, etc), burn out is inevitable. You can do it for a while, but its not a sustainable situation. It is also likely that recovery from burnout will take longer and reduce your efficacy much more than was gained from overworking in the first place.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
nh23423fefe 2y ago
Do you imagine he never worked hard? Who is lacking imagination here?

by zdw 2y ago

weinzierl 2y ago

This and take away his nannies, chauffeurs and other servants. Let his wife work a regular job too. If you are not privileged, running a family is another 40 hour a week job.

Upvoter33 2y ago
I mean, I take your point and even agree with you. But, to be fair, I'm sure Sergei worked 60+ hours/week when Google was starting.
- cduzz 2y ago
  It's almost like how many hours a week a person can work on a thing depends on their ownership of the thing, their domestic situation, and their financial state.
  - piva00 2y ago
    Just to add: ownership and agency, I know a few startup founders who completely wrecked their mental health after accepting dumb money which took away their agency to pursue their vision while still having to work absurd hours.
  - drivingmenuts 2y ago
    Ah, but you see, Sergey cares about his company, not their company. Or their lives. Or their needs. Or their wants. He is Empire and he is what Matters.
- Manfred 2y ago
  There is a difference between choosing to work 60 hours at your own startup with the prospect of a very large payout and being salaried at a giant company.
- hdjjhhvvhga 2y ago
  I did the same for the projects I created or were fun for me. However, there is a limit and at some point you just hurt your body, some of it can be irreparable. You may not notice it when being younger but you will need to pay for that later.
glimshe 2y ago
To that let's add the stress of financial ruin or major setback in case he loses his job due to a competitive ratings-based "objective" perf review.
soupfordummies 2y ago
feed the cat do the laundry clean the toilet sweep the floor buy the groceries pay the bills call the cable company change the oil in the car water the plants take out the trash scoop the litterbox file your taxes cook dinner do the dishes make a dentist appointment mow the lawn go to the post office buy your brother a birthday gift change the sheets fix the lightswitch unclog the shower get the brakes fixed on the car get the car washed clean out the gutters…
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  Chores are holidays when you got work and kids...

falcor84 2y ago

I would argue that the difference is not as much in the type of activities, but rather in your ownership and control over them. When it's "your" project and you decide how to do things (at most with feedback from a handful of others whom you all know personally), then you can be extremely productive and motivated working even more than 60h/week for months.

zdw 2y ago
This is valid, when you're not encumbered by a process or person that has to have input on your every move, you can be very productive. As someone who actually really likes process, if you want to encourage some sort of best practice without causing pain, you absolutely must automate the process and not put people in the critical path. For example, if you have a coding standard make sure that linters that are fast and cheerful enforce it, not other people. Also, I don't agree with the "months" - maybe a weekend or whole week, but other than that you're headed into burnout territory.
Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
This is not true. Even if it is your project. For a regular person without all the paid support systems (maids, cooks, etc), burn out is inevitable. You can do it for a while, but its not a sustainable situation. It is also likely that recovery from burnout will take longer and reduce your efficacy much more than was gained from overworking in the first place.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

nh23423fefe 2y ago

Do you imagine he never worked hard? Who is lacking imagination here?