5 ms·

What I'm astounded by is how Musk/DOGE haven't been stopped, sued or even arrested. Isn't this interfering with the proper functioning of government, or vandali

What I'm astounded by is how Musk/DOGE haven't been stopped, sued or even arrested. Isn't this interfering with the proper functioning of government, or vandalism, or gross negligence, some other illegal act?

timods 2y ago
They are most definitely being sued: https://www.justsecurity.org/107087/tracker-litigation-legal-challenges-trump-administration/ https://www.justsecurity.org/107087/tracker-litigation-legal...
- InkCanon 2y ago
  Not an expert on law, but isn't there some mechanism to get policemen to stop DOGE while he's being sued? Like I imagine if I started taking down traffic lights the police would stop me then ask questions.
  - derbOac 2y ago
    I think that's the question on everyones minds. A judge has to order it though, which would trigger a direct confrontation between law enforcement divisions. They could also order assets frozen or something though (I think?) which I don't understand why they don't do.
  - chewbacha 2y ago
    Yes, court orders. But the officers that enforce them are part of the executive branch, so under Trump. They have been purging all career agents so there’s few left to willingly enforce court orders. Its a coup.
  - someothherguyy 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_crisis
  - kube-system 2y ago
    Law enforcement is under the executive branch. The judicial branch doesn’t have any physical ability to project force. The courts rely on the executive’s respect to carry out the rule of law.
  - Brybry 2y ago
    Here's an informative Congressional Research Service article on Enforcement of Court Orders Against the Executive Branch.[1] TLDR; courts issue TRO (temporary restraining order), preliminary injunction, or permanent injunctions. Normally people comply. If the government does not comply then individuals can be found in civil contempt and the U.S. Marshals would enforce that. Civil contempt can't be pardoned. There have been some TROs and injunctions issued but also some ignoring of them by the government (and also the supreme court has temporarily stayed at least one). I don't believe any contempt rulings (findings?) have been made, so not yet appropriate for the cops (Marshals). [1] https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB11271 https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB11271
  - lesuorac 2y ago
    I dunno, if there were like 30 of you all wearing orange vests and had relevant department of transportation stickers on actual work pickup trucks I think you might be able to get away with it as long as you threw some cones to dead-end one way of the intersection.
chuckadams 2y ago
Vandalism and gross negligence _is_ the function of the government now. Failure is the goal.
badgersnake 2y ago
This is what the US electorate voted for.
TacticalCoder 2y ago
[dead]
technion 2y ago
I find this an interesting position after the news I just saw that police departments are getting cybertrucks. I know that doesn't technically mean anything but it sure has the optics of police being very unlikely to arrest doge staff.
- cetu86 2y ago
  Given what we've seen so far it wouldn't surprise me if Musk had built a kill switch into these vehicles to stop the police from taking action against him.
  - misiti3780 2y ago
    [flagged]
explain 2y ago
[flagged]
- ithkuil 2y ago
  Is it? A simple boolean choice and you give total carte blanche to anybody got elected? I think a good chunk of the voters cast their choice assuming that there would be checks and balances. Sure there are also many, many trump voters who really wanted exactly this. But they are not the majority of the people.
  - cupcakecommons 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - ithkuil 2y ago
      Please read more carefully what I wrote. Most trump voters may well he on board but that doesn't mean that most of the overall voters are. A fraction of people who voted for Trump thought he would be like Trump 1.0 and just wanted to stop the woke drift of the democrats and/or didn't feel represented by a non-white+woman president. We can debate how small that fraction is but it likely affected the election results.
      - cupcakecommons 2y ago
        I did read. I think the fraction you are mentioning is quite small if it exists at all. Elon was the reason for a vast majority of the people I know voting for him - it's not even close
        ithkuil 2y ago
        I think you may be the one in a bubble. I don't think the average conservative grandma is really in favour of the chaos that Elon is unleashing. The only reasons they voted for Trump is that they thought they were against total debauchery of the left and the trans activism and whatnot. If that grandma could choose between an old school conservative and these clowns she will choose the old school conservatives. Yes it's a winner take all system, yes that's how it works. But don't use that to justify that whatever the winner does is what all people actually wanted because it's just not true.
cupcakecommons 2y ago
[flagged]
buyucu 2y ago
What Trump has done in 1 month is probably enough to keep courts busy for the next two years. So, get in line.
jaybrendansmith 2y ago
It definitely feels like someone is trying to inflict Project Mayhem on our government. What's the appropriate response here by law enforcement?
kennysoona 2y ago
The people that see this as an issue are trying to respect the rule of law, while the other half celebrate anything Musk and his assistant Trump do even if it's clearly terrible. When half the people are fine with it and all branches of government are allied with them, there isn't much the rest of us can do except try to clean up the mess when we get a chance to.

timods 2y ago

They are most definitely being sued: https://www.justsecurity.org/107087/tracker-litigation-legal-challenges-trump-administration/ https://www.justsecurity.org/107087/tracker-litigation-legal...

InkCanon 2y ago
Not an expert on law, but isn't there some mechanism to get policemen to stop DOGE while he's being sued? Like I imagine if I started taking down traffic lights the police would stop me then ask questions.
- derbOac 2y ago
  I think that's the question on everyones minds. A judge has to order it though, which would trigger a direct confrontation between law enforcement divisions. They could also order assets frozen or something though (I think?) which I don't understand why they don't do.
- chewbacha 2y ago
  Yes, court orders. But the officers that enforce them are part of the executive branch, so under Trump. They have been purging all career agents so there’s few left to willingly enforce court orders. Its a coup.
- someothherguyy 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_crisis
- kube-system 2y ago
  Law enforcement is under the executive branch. The judicial branch doesn’t have any physical ability to project force. The courts rely on the executive’s respect to carry out the rule of law.
- Brybry 2y ago
  Here's an informative Congressional Research Service article on Enforcement of Court Orders Against the Executive Branch.[1] TLDR; courts issue TRO (temporary restraining order), preliminary injunction, or permanent injunctions. Normally people comply. If the government does not comply then individuals can be found in civil contempt and the U.S. Marshals would enforce that. Civil contempt can't be pardoned. There have been some TROs and injunctions issued but also some ignoring of them by the government (and also the supreme court has temporarily stayed at least one). I don't believe any contempt rulings (findings?) have been made, so not yet appropriate for the cops (Marshals). [1] https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB11271 https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB11271
- lesuorac 2y ago
  I dunno, if there were like 30 of you all wearing orange vests and had relevant department of transportation stickers on actual work pickup trucks I think you might be able to get away with it as long as you threw some cones to dead-end one way of the intersection.

chuckadams 2y ago

Vandalism and gross negligence _is_ the function of the government now. Failure is the goal.

badgersnake 2y ago

This is what the US electorate voted for.

TacticalCoder 2y ago

[dead]

technion 2y ago

I find this an interesting position after the news I just saw that police departments are getting cybertrucks. I know that doesn't technically mean anything but it sure has the optics of police being very unlikely to arrest doge staff.

cetu86 2y ago
Given what we've seen so far it wouldn't surprise me if Musk had built a kill switch into these vehicles to stop the police from taking action against him.
- misiti3780 2y ago
  [flagged]

explain 2y ago

[flagged]

ithkuil 2y ago
Is it? A simple boolean choice and you give total carte blanche to anybody got elected? I think a good chunk of the voters cast their choice assuming that there would be checks and balances. Sure there are also many, many trump voters who really wanted exactly this. But they are not the majority of the people.
- cupcakecommons 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - ithkuil 2y ago
    Please read more carefully what I wrote. Most trump voters may well he on board but that doesn't mean that most of the overall voters are. A fraction of people who voted for Trump thought he would be like Trump 1.0 and just wanted to stop the woke drift of the democrats and/or didn't feel represented by a non-white+woman president. We can debate how small that fraction is but it likely affected the election results.
    - cupcakecommons 2y ago
      I did read. I think the fraction you are mentioning is quite small if it exists at all. Elon was the reason for a vast majority of the people I know voting for him - it's not even close
      - ithkuil 2y ago
        I think you may be the one in a bubble. I don't think the average conservative grandma is really in favour of the chaos that Elon is unleashing. The only reasons they voted for Trump is that they thought they were against total debauchery of the left and the trans activism and whatnot. If that grandma could choose between an old school conservative and these clowns she will choose the old school conservatives. Yes it's a winner take all system, yes that's how it works. But don't use that to justify that whatever the winner does is what all people actually wanted because it's just not true.

cupcakecommons 2y ago

[flagged]

buyucu 2y ago

What Trump has done in 1 month is probably enough to keep courts busy for the next two years. So, get in line.

jaybrendansmith 2y ago

It definitely feels like someone is trying to inflict Project Mayhem on our government. What's the appropriate response here by law enforcement?

kennysoona 2y ago

The people that see this as an issue are trying to respect the rule of law, while the other half celebrate anything Musk and his assistant Trump do even if it's clearly terrible. When half the people are fine with it and all branches of government are allied with them, there isn't much the rest of us can do except try to clean up the mess when we get a chance to.