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"Knowing" CSS in these days is nearly impossible. There are so many language features. Don't get me wrong: CSS today is cool and nearly anything is possible (ca

"Knowing" CSS in these days is nearly impossible. There are so many language features. Don't get me wrong: CSS today is cool and nearly anything is possible (can Doom run wirh CSS by the way?), but I work as frontend dev for years and I have not the feeling I really know CSS in depth

becquerel 2y ago
I think the doom() function is still getting rolled out across the major browsers. IIRC newer versions of Chrome have a working implementation.
sublinear 2y ago
These jokes, as lightheartded as they are, need to stop. Especially true on here.
bryanrasmussen 2y ago
how many features does CSS - the language - have now in comparison to JavaScript? How many features do the various APIs altogether have. How many features do the various object models have, CSSOM, SVG DOM, HTML DOM, Shadow DOM... What is your knowledge of all these features in comparison to CSS features? Jumping off of that and go look at any mature language and CS subject, there is probably too much for you "know" completely, but there is of course possibility to "know" a general argument for how to use it properly, once that is known individual things is just looking up syntax.
- bryanrasmussen 2y ago
  ok evidently someone thought that all of these things are easier to know than CSS, which is just ludicrous, and gave me a downvote to let me know their disapproval of my opinion. Very Classy. But not CSS Classy.
  - JansjoFromIkea 2y ago
    I wouldn't get too hung up on downvoting online, ignoring deliberately malicious actors the range of reasons for downvoting can go from "this person posted a hate crime" to "other people already posted something close enough to this" or even "this person gave a perfectly valid answer but it does not feel like it's taking the discussion in the direction I feel it's meant to go"
    - bryanrasmussen 2y ago
      I know, just every now and then it is particularly weird and I comment. Also it was real quick, like I had said something so offensive it needed to be pounced on. :)
mattlondon 2y ago
There is knowing and there is knowing. I don't pretend to know every dark corner of typescript, neither for CSS. But knowing enough detail to be efficient and write maintainable and easily extendable code is important. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
postepowanieadm 2y ago
After reading mixu/cssbook I felt I knew and understood CSS quite well. But it was 10 years ago! Every new feature brings new edge cases that combine with all existing edge cases. Add some features like WebComponents and you have far too much undefined behaviour.
- soulofmischief 2y ago
  What undefined behavior have you encountered with CSS?
  - postepowanieadm 2y ago
    Tables and Web Components combined with grid or flex is where magic happens.
bob1029 2y ago
I think knowing what to ask and where to look represents mastery of CSS. Understanding the approximate power of things like flexbox and having some aesthetic taste is much of the battle. You have to be willing to get your hands dirty. CSS is almost entirely about art. Figure out which paint brushes and techniques work best for you. There are a lot of viable paths.
- econ 2y ago
  That was then, now it is a 3d engine.
  - mablopoule 2y ago
    No, it has a 3d engine, one that you can happily ignore 99.9999% of the time. CSS has a few gotcha, a few things to got to understand about it (selectors, selector priority and the way content flow depending on absolute / relative positionning), but it is not an impossible language to pick up, far from it. As the grandparent comment said, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
    - econ 2y ago
      My problem is that having it makes me want to use it.
soulofmischief 2y ago
It just sounds like you need to spend more time solving problems with CSS. "Knowing" CSS means being able to style most things without needing to check any resources or otherwise look for help. Occasionally there might be a particular issue that requires contemplation or reading the manual, but that is true of any sufficiently complex design system, especially a living specification such as CSS. I recommend familiarizing yourself with new features as they are adopted. For example, front end devs are going to need to learn Houdini.
- wruza 2y ago
  I spent some honest time solving the problems in css. You know what was the industry/search approved solution 90% of the times? Some greasy hack that assumes sizes and doesn’t translate elsewhere or generalize into experience. You just start to know how to make a single x of X, but X is still as big. Css is a pile of low-effort crap targeted specifically at ad-hoc problems web designers had. It can make front pages, and sucks at everything else.
  - soulofmischief 2y ago
    That was way back, things are a lot better now than they were 15 years ago. Anyway, I got by quite far never assuming sizes with hacks like `height: 0; padding: 100%;` etc. But that kind of stuff is almost never needed today to get good results. > It can make front pages, and sucks at everything else I've made some very slick apps and widgets over the years using CSS. CSS isn't the problem, a lack of imagination is. CSS actually covers quite a lot of cases today, and with Houdini etc being exposed, the sky will soon be the limit.
    - wruza 2y ago
      This overcoming is pretty much the spirit of css, while in other gui frameworks you just do things. They don’t require imagination, just straightforward geometry. Presenting it as something cool is idk, don’t have a constructive word for that.
econ 2y ago
I knew css at a time, then it ran away from me and mocked me from afar.
arvinsim 2y ago
In this age of LLMs and AI, the incentive to master CSS is even lower.

becquerel 2y ago

I think the doom() function is still getting rolled out across the major browsers. IIRC newer versions of Chrome have a working implementation.

sublinear 2y ago

These jokes, as lightheartded as they are, need to stop. Especially true on here.

bryanrasmussen 2y ago

how many features does CSS - the language - have now in comparison to JavaScript? How many features do the various APIs altogether have. How many features do the various object models have, CSSOM, SVG DOM, HTML DOM, Shadow DOM... What is your knowledge of all these features in comparison to CSS features? Jumping off of that and go look at any mature language and CS subject, there is probably too much for you "know" completely, but there is of course possibility to "know" a general argument for how to use it properly, once that is known individual things is just looking up syntax.

bryanrasmussen 2y ago
ok evidently someone thought that all of these things are easier to know than CSS, which is just ludicrous, and gave me a downvote to let me know their disapproval of my opinion. Very Classy. But not CSS Classy.
- JansjoFromIkea 2y ago
  I wouldn't get too hung up on downvoting online, ignoring deliberately malicious actors the range of reasons for downvoting can go from "this person posted a hate crime" to "other people already posted something close enough to this" or even "this person gave a perfectly valid answer but it does not feel like it's taking the discussion in the direction I feel it's meant to go"
  - bryanrasmussen 2y ago
    I know, just every now and then it is particularly weird and I comment. Also it was real quick, like I had said something so offensive it needed to be pounced on. :)

mattlondon 2y ago

There is knowing and there is knowing. I don't pretend to know every dark corner of typescript, neither for CSS. But knowing enough detail to be efficient and write maintainable and easily extendable code is important. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

postepowanieadm 2y ago

After reading mixu/cssbook I felt I knew and understood CSS quite well. But it was 10 years ago! Every new feature brings new edge cases that combine with all existing edge cases. Add some features like WebComponents and you have far too much undefined behaviour.

soulofmischief 2y ago
What undefined behavior have you encountered with CSS?
- postepowanieadm 2y ago
  Tables and Web Components combined with grid or flex is where magic happens.

bob1029 2y ago

I think knowing what to ask and where to look represents mastery of CSS. Understanding the approximate power of things like flexbox and having some aesthetic taste is much of the battle. You have to be willing to get your hands dirty. CSS is almost entirely about art. Figure out which paint brushes and techniques work best for you. There are a lot of viable paths.

econ 2y ago
That was then, now it is a 3d engine.
- mablopoule 2y ago
  No, it has a 3d engine, one that you can happily ignore 99.9999% of the time. CSS has a few gotcha, a few things to got to understand about it (selectors, selector priority and the way content flow depending on absolute / relative positionning), but it is not an impossible language to pick up, far from it. As the grandparent comment said, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
  - econ 2y ago
    My problem is that having it makes me want to use it.

soulofmischief 2y ago

It just sounds like you need to spend more time solving problems with CSS. "Knowing" CSS means being able to style most things without needing to check any resources or otherwise look for help. Occasionally there might be a particular issue that requires contemplation or reading the manual, but that is true of any sufficiently complex design system, especially a living specification such as CSS. I recommend familiarizing yourself with new features as they are adopted. For example, front end devs are going to need to learn Houdini.

wruza 2y ago
I spent some honest time solving the problems in css. You know what was the industry/search approved solution 90% of the times? Some greasy hack that assumes sizes and doesn’t translate elsewhere or generalize into experience. You just start to know how to make a single x of X, but X is still as big. Css is a pile of low-effort crap targeted specifically at ad-hoc problems web designers had. It can make front pages, and sucks at everything else.
- soulofmischief 2y ago
  That was way back, things are a lot better now than they were 15 years ago. Anyway, I got by quite far never assuming sizes with hacks like `height: 0; padding: 100%;` etc. But that kind of stuff is almost never needed today to get good results. > It can make front pages, and sucks at everything else I've made some very slick apps and widgets over the years using CSS. CSS isn't the problem, a lack of imagination is. CSS actually covers quite a lot of cases today, and with Houdini etc being exposed, the sky will soon be the limit.
  - wruza 2y ago
    This overcoming is pretty much the spirit of css, while in other gui frameworks you just do things. They don’t require imagination, just straightforward geometry. Presenting it as something cool is idk, don’t have a constructive word for that.

econ 2y ago

I knew css at a time, then it ran away from me and mocked me from afar.

arvinsim 2y ago

In this age of LLMs and AI, the incentive to master CSS is even lower.