3 ms·

When did Trump pledge to destroy the NIH? He did also specficially disavow Project 2025 and is now enacting a whole bunch of it.

bagels 2y ago
When he brought the person who wrote the forward to Project 2025 on as VP? How about when he nominated Russell Vought as Director of OMB in 2020?
- mullingitover 2y ago
  Irrelevant. He disavowed it. He might be a well known liar, and people might’ve been stupid to believe him when he disavowed Project 2025, but his campaign did not promise to enact these policies.
shakna 2y ago
He said he wouldn't in statements, however every single one of his proposed budgets included cuts that would do so. https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/sep/30/donald-trumps-2024-campaign-promises-heres-his-vis/ https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/sep/30/donald-trumps...
- afavour 2y ago
  > He said he wouldn't in statements So he specifically did the opposite of campaign on it then. Most voters weren't going to go and read through his proposed budgets and everyone knows that.
jghn 2y ago
Remember when it came out that Project 2025 was going to be the playbook? And Trump disavowed it but all evidence pointed to the contrary? And our priors pointed to him not being inclined to tell the truth? That's when we knew this would happen.
- afavour 2y ago
  Yes, those of us paying attention knew that when he disavowed Project 2025 he was talking nonsense. But OP said Trump "campaigned on doing exactly these things". He didn't. He campaigned on literally disavowing these things. "we knew this would happen" !== "he campaigned on doing exactly these things"
  - jghn 2y ago
    Yes, and that's my point. Anyone who truly, honestly "didn't know" doesn't deserve to have a vote.
    - afavour 2y ago
      I’d suggest your viewpoint is a pretty sheltered one. Many people (relatives of mine included, sadly) marinate in a stew of social media algorithms showing them things that confirm their priors and they aren’t exposed to any oppositional media. Perhaps they don’t deserve a vote. But if they don’t then a lot of voters don’t deserve a vote. And maybe we ought to be asking ourselves “what systems have we set up that have led to such wildly underinformed voters? Are there things we can do to rectify that?” rather than just give up on a significant section of the population. Much easier to write it off as a person’s individual failure than consider it as a societal issue. (not to mention, “they don’t deserve a vote” doesn’t say a whole lot. They still have a vote even if we decide they’re undeserving. We’re all in it together, like it or not)
      - throwaway48476 2y ago
        If only they were only exposed to my propaganda. "Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth and sooner or later that debt is paid"
        afavour 2y ago
        I don’t see the value in your contribution here. There is an objective truth I think everyone participating in the discussion agrees on: Trump lied in campaign speeches and the reality was clear to those in possession of all the facts. Events post election have indeed confirmed that he was lying. So what is “my propaganda” you’re referring to? There’s just a truth that some people weren’t made aware of.
seattle_spring 2y ago
Right here: https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_CHAPTER-14.pdf https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_CHA...
- afavour 2y ago
  This is my point, he specifically disavowed Project 2025 while campaigning.
  - seattle_spring 2y ago
    His words disavowed Project 2025, but his actions very obviously supported it. Reminds me of an apt quote: "I'm not a litigious man... that's why I have lawyers." -- Conrad "Skip" Meinhofer IV
    - afavour 2y ago
      It feels like we're bending over backwards to minimize a liar lying here. He did not campaign on enacting Project 2025. He literally stood on the stage at rallies and disavowed it. Yeah, he was lying and a lot of us knew it but that doesn't change what he campaigned on. If a politician tells a bold faced lie we shouldn't minimize it by saying "oh but everyone knew what he really meant". He lied to voters.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - seattle_spring 2y ago
        Pointing out that a liar's true intentions are obvious does not minimize the fact that they lied.
        afavour 2y ago
        Not obvious to all. I have relatives who get all their “news” from a Facebook feed that’s heavily filtered to confirm their priors. They told me time and time again that Trump had disavowed Project 2025. The obviousness of his lies were not apparent to them. Yes, they should be better informed (believe me, I know) but they’re far from alone. So that’s why it bugs me when I see someone say “he’s doing exactly what he said he’d do!” and the story quickly pivots to “well yes of course he specifically said he wasn’t going to do that but it was obvious he was lying”. A lot of people are living in vastly different information ecosystems, which is why the words coming out of a candidate’s mouth matter.

bagels 2y ago

When he brought the person who wrote the forward to Project 2025 on as VP? How about when he nominated Russell Vought as Director of OMB in 2020?

mullingitover 2y ago
Irrelevant. He disavowed it. He might be a well known liar, and people might’ve been stupid to believe him when he disavowed Project 2025, but his campaign did not promise to enact these policies.

shakna 2y ago

He said he wouldn't in statements, however every single one of his proposed budgets included cuts that would do so. https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/sep/30/donald-trumps-2024-campaign-promises-heres-his-vis/ https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/sep/30/donald-trumps...

afavour 2y ago
> He said he wouldn't in statements So he specifically did the opposite of campaign on it then. Most voters weren't going to go and read through his proposed budgets and everyone knows that.

jghn 2y ago

Remember when it came out that Project 2025 was going to be the playbook? And Trump disavowed it but all evidence pointed to the contrary? And our priors pointed to him not being inclined to tell the truth? That's when we knew this would happen.

afavour 2y ago
Yes, those of us paying attention knew that when he disavowed Project 2025 he was talking nonsense. But OP said Trump "campaigned on doing exactly these things". He didn't. He campaigned on literally disavowing these things. "we knew this would happen" !== "he campaigned on doing exactly these things"
- jghn 2y ago
  Yes, and that's my point. Anyone who truly, honestly "didn't know" doesn't deserve to have a vote.
  - afavour 2y ago
    I’d suggest your viewpoint is a pretty sheltered one. Many people (relatives of mine included, sadly) marinate in a stew of social media algorithms showing them things that confirm their priors and they aren’t exposed to any oppositional media. Perhaps they don’t deserve a vote. But if they don’t then a lot of voters don’t deserve a vote. And maybe we ought to be asking ourselves “what systems have we set up that have led to such wildly underinformed voters? Are there things we can do to rectify that?” rather than just give up on a significant section of the population. Much easier to write it off as a person’s individual failure than consider it as a societal issue. (not to mention, “they don’t deserve a vote” doesn’t say a whole lot. They still have a vote even if we decide they’re undeserving. We’re all in it together, like it or not)
    - throwaway48476 2y ago
      If only they were only exposed to my propaganda. "Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth and sooner or later that debt is paid"
      - afavour 2y ago
        I don’t see the value in your contribution here. There is an objective truth I think everyone participating in the discussion agrees on: Trump lied in campaign speeches and the reality was clear to those in possession of all the facts. Events post election have indeed confirmed that he was lying. So what is “my propaganda” you’re referring to? There’s just a truth that some people weren’t made aware of.

seattle_spring 2y ago

Right here: https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_CHAPTER-14.pdf https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_CHA...

afavour 2y ago
This is my point, he specifically disavowed Project 2025 while campaigning.
- seattle_spring 2y ago
  His words disavowed Project 2025, but his actions very obviously supported it. Reminds me of an apt quote: "I'm not a litigious man... that's why I have lawyers." -- Conrad "Skip" Meinhofer IV
  - afavour 2y ago
    It feels like we're bending over backwards to minimize a liar lying here. He did not campaign on enacting Project 2025. He literally stood on the stage at rallies and disavowed it. Yeah, he was lying and a lot of us knew it but that doesn't change what he campaigned on. If a politician tells a bold faced lie we shouldn't minimize it by saying "oh but everyone knew what he really meant". He lied to voters.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - seattle_spring 2y ago
      Pointing out that a liar's true intentions are obvious does not minimize the fact that they lied.
      - afavour 2y ago
        Not obvious to all. I have relatives who get all their “news” from a Facebook feed that’s heavily filtered to confirm their priors. They told me time and time again that Trump had disavowed Project 2025. The obviousness of his lies were not apparent to them. Yes, they should be better informed (believe me, I know) but they’re far from alone. So that’s why it bugs me when I see someone say “he’s doing exactly what he said he’d do!” and the story quickly pivots to “well yes of course he specifically said he wasn’t going to do that but it was obvious he was lying”. A lot of people are living in vastly different information ecosystems, which is why the words coming out of a candidate’s mouth matter.