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Funny, I’m literally seeing the opposite. Had two people move from the EU last year due to free speech concerns.
by sepositus 2y ago
Funny, I’m literally seeing the opposite. Had two people move from the EU last year due to free speech concerns.
- gildas 2y agoOne doesn't preclude the other, but I have serious doubts about free speech concerns. There are moderate and extreme movements in Europe. They all express themselves freely within the law.
- jakeogh 2y agoblink... They outlawed silent prayer.
- gildas 2y agoThe UK left EU some years ago.
- jakeogh 2y agoNo worries though, Germany is raiding peoples houses for offending people online. Please spare me the "only for Holocaust deniers" thing.
- gildas 2y agoI'm sorry but it's normal. You don't have the right to offend people online or not.
- jakeogh 2y ago[flagged]
- gildas 2y agoI sincerely apologize if you found my response offensive. It was not my intention and I try to respect the moderation rules on HN. I just wanted to give my point of view, as a person living in the EU.
- jakeogh 2y agoThis might seem unrelated. I pray you decided to watch the first yt link. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6lsUJdGLFx7OGLRQCQfHQPWcMDPc5Ey7 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6lsUJdGLFx7OGLRQCQfH...
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoYou can’t have free speech without being able to offend. And you can’t have democracy without free speech.
- gildas 2y agoYes, but in this case, there's nothing to stop you from apologizing and possibly discuss the offending point so that it doesn't happen again.
- refurb 2y agoWhat you just said offends my beliefs in fundamental human right to free speech. Who do I call to press charges?
- gildas 2y agoI sincerely apologize again if you found my response offensive. You can contact your local police to make a complaint, I suppose.
- adamsb6 2y agoI find this extremely offensive.
- gildas 2y agoI'm sorry. I'm open to discussion if you can explain what is offending to you
- sepositus 2y agoWhat's normal? You just offended a whole group of people and probably had no intention of doing it. You're proving the point on why the whole thing doesn't work. You should get your comment removed if you seriously believe this to be true and want to avoid being hypocritical.
- gildas 2y agoI'm sorry if you feel offended. My comments will be removed by HN moderators if they think it's necessary. You can flag and downvote them meanwhile. You can also contact the moderators or your local police if you think it is necessary. EDIT: It might not be possible to flag or downvote comments. So, I recommend you to contact the moderators or your local police. You can find my name and address on my GitHub profile.
- sepositus 2y agoI have no interest in pressing charges against you or getting you in trouble. That would be hypocritical of me and contrary to my beliefs. I was simply pointing out how easy it is to offend people on the internet and why it simply doesn't work at scale. If no one has the right to say something potentially offensive on the internet, then the whole thing needs to be shut down.
- gildas 2y agoThank you for explaining your point of view on the interest of this conversation. Here's mine, I consider an offense to be something quite subjective sometimes. In some cases, it's possible to offend someone without meaning to. The solution to this problem is to apologize and offer to talk about it. If that doesn't work, and the offense is in some way "forbidden", then the offended person can simply defend themselves by going to the “authorities”.
- sepositus 2y agoOf course, we’re probably seeing the normal amount of movement when administrations shift. I work for a global company and have only witnessed the EU to US movement. I’m sure both are happening.
- immibis 2y agoFree speech concerns in the EU go like: - You can't call people pedophiles unless it was proven in court. - You can't say black people are inferior. - You can't say Israel is doing a genocide. and only one of these is a valid thing to be worried about IMO...
- ty6853 2y agoHow about I see an interesting street hustler in Munich and put a photo of him on my blog? If something like that is illegal I'd quickly find our two cultures are absolutely incompatible with my continued residence.
- immibis 2y agoI see - you think harassment and privacy violation is free speech. Please stay away from Europe.
- ty6853 2y agoCool so now free speech is reduced to anything not viewed as harassment. I think I will take your advice, that's dystopic and far worse than just your prior bullet points.
- tharkun__ 2y agoYou can also just ask him if it's OK to do that and they're probably going to be OK with it. And otherwise you simply ensure that you have more than IIRC 5? people in the photo because taking and publishing a photo of a group of people is not illegal. Privacy and not being harassed and free speech are of course exactly where the rubber meets the road. There is an intersection and naturally people will have differing opinions as to where the line should be drawn. One can always come up with examples where favoring free speech will lead to really bad outcomes for someone and vice versa.
- immibis 2y agoUh, it's reduced to things that are not harassment. Who said "viewed as"? Are you trying to make everything subjective, so you can argue all opinions about harassment are equally valid? This is like saying the US's gun law is "reduced" to everything "viewed as" the right to keep and bear arms. I don't think you can legally own a nuclear missile anywhere in the US, even in Texas. Which part of taking someone's picture is speech, anyway? I didn't see that in the first amendment.
- bamboozled 2y agoLast year is a bit different to this year no ?
- scrollaway 2y agoAnd how are they doing now? Anyway I’m sure people can be in whatever bubble their algorithmic news gives them. At the end of the day, today, it’s shameful to be American and many of my American friends feel that shame right now. The same cannot be said for most European countries.
- sepositus 2y ago> Anyway I’m sure people can be in whatever bubble their algorithmic news gives them > it’s shameful to be American and many of my American friends feel that shame right now. The same cannot be said for most European countries. So you're proposing you are immune to a bubble? One of the people I referenced was _literally_ ashamed of the German government. It's happening on both sides. I find the whole thing odd, to be honest. I had a ton of disagreements with the prior administration, and I think the way many things were handled was "shameful." However, I never once felt "ashamed" of being American. Administrations come and go. The will of the people is fickle and changes like the wind.