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I wonder if given the recent "moral" loss of US, we will see a post-WW2 Soviet vs USA style defection of scientists & engineers between USA and China? No. The
by gamblor956 2y ago
I wonder if given the recent "moral" loss of US, we will see a post-WW2 Soviet vs USA style defection of scientists & engineers between USA and China?
No. The US will experience a brain drain to Europe, Canada, and Australia, but not to China. Trump still has a ways to go to match the excesses of the Xi regime.
- ideashower 2y agoYeah this feels right, Americans will choose leveraging their English before seeking out needing to learn a non-Romance language, I feel.
- tensor 2y agoLanguage? What about principles of freedom, democracy, and science? I would think that those things would be why US scientists choose Canada and Europe first. I doubt language is really high on the list.
- LPisGood 2y agoLanguage and ease of immigration are going to be very important to the decision of where to move. Naturally, those things you mentioned are important, but so is language.
- redserk 2y agoWhat freedoms would they lose?
- ty6853 2y agoRight to bear arms (only Yemen and Idlib is stronger here) and some of the loosest regulations on non commercial speech.
- throwaway2037 2y agoRight to bear arms? How about Finland or Switzerland? It is pretty easy to own guns in both places.
- ty6853 2y agoWhere I live now you can 3d print an unregistered and unserialized pistol then stuff it under your shirt (loaded) and walk into the unsecured part of a public airport without breaking the law, all with zero paperwork or licenses or checks. Can I do that in Switzerland?
- pezezin 2y agoAnd why is that a good thing?
- ty6853 2y agoWell for one, Europe has a history of gassing disarmed people and those on registries, for two locking your gun up to pick someone up from the airport just presents an unnecessary opportunity for it to be stolen. Why is it a good thing to put someone into a tiny cage for victimless possession crimes? Why must I convince you why whatever I do is good to preserve my rights? Fuck all that.
- redserk 2y agoEurope is a pretty big place with a lot of disparate governments. Abstracting it to merely "Europe" is ignoring how the world operates. Many European governments have been actively expanding and enshrining rights of individuals. Secondly, none of your points are pertinent to the day-to-day of anyone in academic research/science. Perhaps only to the irrationally paranoid.
- ty6853 2y agoIt was relevant to Einstein.
- Philpax 2y agoI wouldn't rule it out iff the other candidates can't stump up the resources to play the game. I very much doubt AGI will come out of Canada or Australia; Europe is making some overtures, but it'll take some time to get the machinery rolling to the same extent.
- NalNezumi 2y agoThat would be my guess too. But as I read scientific paper regularly, I can't ignore how vast majority of the author names (well at least in STEM, ML/Robotics, latter is my interest) are Chinese. I don't think those young talents would mind moving to China, especially when anti-asian sentiment have been on the rise since Covid. But since many renown European universities/research center also have those bright young Chinese mind, I guess the Chinese in US can also just move to the more friendly part of Europe (Switzerland etc). There's also HK, where you can get by with English just fine. And they're making new research centers as we speak. (although my HK friends tell me it is getting more Mainland Chinese day by day and expats are leaving).
- immibis 2y agoIt's not a brain drain - it's not Americans moving into China. It's Chinese people getting educated and doing stuff themselves.
- ty6853 2y agoMost of Europe (notable exception france), Canada, and Australia will happily betray their own citizens to extradition to foreign countries. If things get bad enough that science immigration becomes 'defection' they'd be safer from the US in China.
- throwaway2037 2y agoAre you OK with a person committing a violent crime in a foreign country, then returning home to a country that "protects" them against extradition? I never understand the pushback against extradition. You can extradite carefully. Also, "most of Europe", Canada, and Australia are highly functional democracies. If extradition is so bad, why haven't they outlawed it? Also, most people overlook the fact that, "any French citizen who commits a crime according to the French law, even abroad, can be prosecuted in France." So that makes extradition moot in my view. Quote source: https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-reasoning-behind-Frances-law-forbidding-legal-extradition-of-its-citizens-abroad https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-reasoning-behind-Frances-law...
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- Fricken 2y agoI'm Canadian, we have an estimated 250k-300k citizens living in China. All the ones I've spoken with were pretty impressed with the place. For comparison, Canada has 73k citizens living in the UK, 90k in France, and 800k in the US.
- throwaway2037 2y agoDo you count Hongkong as part of Mainland China? Most surveys do not. (The line is certainly more blury than 5 years ago.) I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_diaspora https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_diaspora Hong Kong 300,000 Zhang and DeGolyer, 2011 China 19,990 Chinese Census 2010