5 ms·

Passing the Buck: The story of the 2022 Wings Over Dallas air show collision

87 points by mathgenius 2y ago

wkat4242 2y ago
Ohh nice! I've been following her articles for a year or so, but I recently stopped checking her site because the articles are so few and far between now. They used to come very regularly. I'm glad she's still making new ones. The last one about egyptair was months ago. So I wasn't sure if she'd stopped or something. I guess she's either not got much material left to write about or she's busy with other work. But I'm always happy to read new stuff <3 and it's worth waiting for. Ps it might be a bit of a morbid interest but I fly myself and I get really interesting insights from it. I only fly small stuff but still. Ps2 this is the second B17 crash she's written about. There's not a lot of them left now in flyable condition :'(
- ddulaney 2y ago
  She wrote an update last year about the frequency changes: https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/why-so-few-articles-lately-and-why-not-on-saturdays-a-quick-rundown-086be4029f88 https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/why-so-few-articles-late... Definitely worth subscribing to email updates!
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    Ah thanks I didn't see that. Also didn't know she had a podcast as well (I don't listen to podcasts anyway so it wasn't on my radar). I did notice the articles getting longer and better though. Makes sense! I didn't realise this was her job, I thought it was more of a side thing.
    - ddulaney 2y ago
      The podcast is super fun! It takes the “Engineering Podcast with Slides” model that WTYP originated, but instead of having one knowledgeable person and two comedians, all 3 know different parts of the industry.
      - cr125rider 2y ago
        What’s the name of the podcast?
  - agsnu 2y ago
    I think since then it was announced that the alluded to paid gig is script work/research for https://www.youtube.com/@MentourPilot https://www.youtube.com/@MentourPilot
    - wkat4242 2y ago
      Ugh what a waste of her talent. I don't know this guy but his YouTube channel is so clickbaity. Every video title has some exaggerated screamy headline. I would never bother even looking at one.
      - paol 2y ago
        And yet the quality of that channel is absolutely excellent, and the polar opposite of what the thumbnail clickbait suggests. I'd say it's on the same level of the Admiral Cloudberg blog actually. And to be clear I completely agree with your reaction to the clickbait. If I didn't already know the channel I would probably avoid the videos too. And I've seen this happen with other channels. It seems to be an unfortunate effect of the current youtube "meta".
        addaon 2y ago
        Yep. Watched a few videos, was overall impressed. Subscribed. A week later blocked the channel because the value of the videos was less than the annoyance of seeing the thumbnails and titles in my feed. No great loss.
        pbowyer 2y ago
        DeArrow [1] or Clickbait Remover for Youtube [2] would help with that. 1. https://dearrow.ajay.app/ https://dearrow.ajay.app/ 2. https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/clickbait-remover-for-you/omoinegiohhgbikclijaniebjpkeopip https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/clickbait-remover-f... would help
        addaon 2y ago
  - qsi 2y ago
    Also from TFA: "Thanks for your patience in waiting for this article! After publishing my piece on EgyptAir 804 in December, I moved half way across the country in a long, messy relocation process fraught with other struggles along the way. But here I am, and here it is. Thank you!"
    - wkat4242 2y ago
      Ah yeah I didn't have a chance to read it yet. I take my time with those :) But that explains a lot.
azalemeth 2y ago
A really sad tale, but amazingly depressing that you can work as an ATC for arguably the most difficult forms of civil aviation, with no planning, aids, or procedures -- all without qualifications.
- CapricornNoble 2y ago
  Yeah unscripted low-altitude aviation control is something a JTAC would do in combat. This is such a high-risk way to manage aircraft over a crowd of civilians, it's shocking to hear this is normalized.
  - krisoft 2y ago
    Also i don’t really understand why does it need to be improvised. The audience wants to see roaring airplanes flying by. I understand that. But why can’t the paths be pre-agreed?
    - roelschroeven 2y ago
      Fully agree, I don't understand why airshows need to have this level of improvisation, or actually any improvisation at all.
- csa 2y ago
  > but amazingly depressing that you can work as an ATC for arguably the most difficult forms of civil aviation, with no planning, aids, or procedures -- all without qualifications. Your wording is ambiguous to me. Are you talking about the “air boss” here? ATCs get plenty of training and are qualified — several months of training plus 2-3 years of additional classroom work and OJT. Fairly high attrition rate as well (iirc).
  - rocqua 2y ago
    I believe they meant that the air boss has a role like an ATC, in a more challenging situation (because you want to keep aircraft somewhat close). Whilst at the same time the air boss doesn't need anywhere near the same training as ATCs do.
haunter 2y ago
What’s the simulator used by NTSB? See the picture “In this image from the NTSB’s visibility study”
- garaetjjte 2y ago
  Something FSX-based, probably Prepar3D.
bunabhucan 2y ago
>and two “scanners.” The purpose of the scanners was to stand by the B-17’s rear doors and keep lookout for other aircraft I spoke to one of the CAF "scanners" when the B29 "FiFi" visited nearby and he said one of their roles was to watch for smoke in case one of the engines caught fire. The engines are "upgrades" from just after the war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFI_(aircraft) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFI_(aircraft)
colanderman 2y ago
> The air boss’s role in a directed performance has been compared to that of an orchestra conductor. "Untrained musician directing an unrehearsed piece" is not even how orchestras work.

87 points by mathgenius 2y ago

Ohh nice! I've been following her articles for a year or so, but I recently stopped checking her site because the articles are so few and far between now. They used to come very regularly. I'm glad she's still making new ones. The last one about egyptair was months ago. So I wasn't sure if she'd stopped or something. I guess she's either not got much material left to write about or she's busy with other work. But I'm always happy to read new stuff <3 and it's worth waiting for. Ps it might be a bit of a morbid interest but I fly myself and I get really interesting insights from it. I only fly small stuff but still. Ps2 this is the second B17 crash she's written about. There's not a lot of them left now in flyable condition :'(

ddulaney 2y ago
She wrote an update last year about the frequency changes: https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/why-so-few-articles-lately-and-why-not-on-saturdays-a-quick-rundown-086be4029f88 https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/why-so-few-articles-late... Definitely worth subscribing to email updates!
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Ah thanks I didn't see that. Also didn't know she had a podcast as well (I don't listen to podcasts anyway so it wasn't on my radar). I did notice the articles getting longer and better though. Makes sense! I didn't realise this was her job, I thought it was more of a side thing.
  - ddulaney 2y ago
    The podcast is super fun! It takes the “Engineering Podcast with Slides” model that WTYP originated, but instead of having one knowledgeable person and two comedians, all 3 know different parts of the industry.
    - cr125rider 2y ago
      What’s the name of the podcast?
- agsnu 2y ago
  I think since then it was announced that the alluded to paid gig is script work/research for https://www.youtube.com/@MentourPilot https://www.youtube.com/@MentourPilot
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    Ugh what a waste of her talent. I don't know this guy but his YouTube channel is so clickbaity. Every video title has some exaggerated screamy headline. I would never bother even looking at one.
    - paol 2y ago
      And yet the quality of that channel is absolutely excellent, and the polar opposite of what the thumbnail clickbait suggests. I'd say it's on the same level of the Admiral Cloudberg blog actually. And to be clear I completely agree with your reaction to the clickbait. If I didn't already know the channel I would probably avoid the videos too. And I've seen this happen with other channels. It seems to be an unfortunate effect of the current youtube "meta".
      - addaon 2y ago
        Yep. Watched a few videos, was overall impressed. Subscribed. A week later blocked the channel because the value of the videos was less than the annoyance of seeing the thumbnails and titles in my feed. No great loss.
        pbowyer 2y ago
        DeArrow [1] or Clickbait Remover for Youtube [2] would help with that. 1. https://dearrow.ajay.app/ https://dearrow.ajay.app/ 2. https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/clickbait-remover-for-you/omoinegiohhgbikclijaniebjpkeopip https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/clickbait-remover-f... would help
        addaon 2y ago
- qsi 2y ago
  Also from TFA: "Thanks for your patience in waiting for this article! After publishing my piece on EgyptAir 804 in December, I moved half way across the country in a long, messy relocation process fraught with other struggles along the way. But here I am, and here it is. Thank you!"
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    Ah yeah I didn't have a chance to read it yet. I take my time with those :) But that explains a lot.

azalemeth 2y ago

A really sad tale, but amazingly depressing that you can work as an ATC for arguably the most difficult forms of civil aviation, with no planning, aids, or procedures -- all without qualifications.

CapricornNoble 2y ago
Yeah unscripted low-altitude aviation control is something a JTAC would do in combat. This is such a high-risk way to manage aircraft over a crowd of civilians, it's shocking to hear this is normalized.
- krisoft 2y ago
  Also i don’t really understand why does it need to be improvised. The audience wants to see roaring airplanes flying by. I understand that. But why can’t the paths be pre-agreed?
  - roelschroeven 2y ago
    Fully agree, I don't understand why airshows need to have this level of improvisation, or actually any improvisation at all.
csa 2y ago
> but amazingly depressing that you can work as an ATC for arguably the most difficult forms of civil aviation, with no planning, aids, or procedures -- all without qualifications. Your wording is ambiguous to me. Are you talking about the “air boss” here? ATCs get plenty of training and are qualified — several months of training plus 2-3 years of additional classroom work and OJT. Fairly high attrition rate as well (iirc).
- rocqua 2y ago
  I believe they meant that the air boss has a role like an ATC, in a more challenging situation (because you want to keep aircraft somewhat close). Whilst at the same time the air boss doesn't need anywhere near the same training as ATCs do.

haunter 2y ago

What’s the simulator used by NTSB? See the picture “In this image from the NTSB’s visibility study”

garaetjjte 2y ago
Something FSX-based, probably Prepar3D.

bunabhucan 2y ago

>and two “scanners.” The purpose of the scanners was to stand by the B-17’s rear doors and keep lookout for other aircraft I spoke to one of the CAF "scanners" when the B29 "FiFi" visited nearby and he said one of their roles was to watch for smoke in case one of the engines caught fire. The engines are "upgrades" from just after the war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFI_(aircraft) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFI_(aircraft)

colanderman 2y ago

> The air boss’s role in a directed performance has been compared to that of an orchestra conductor. "Untrained musician directing an unrehearsed piece" is not even how orchestras work.