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Obesity causes many health problems, but it's also a symptom - of our poor relationship with food, of the way American society is set up around instant gratific

Obesity causes many health problems, but it's also a symptom - of our poor relationship with food, of the way American society is set up around instant gratification, of the predatory nature of food manufacturers. Though treating the symptom is undeniably good, it also lets the deeper problems that lead to it go unchecked, and my fear is that it will lead to novel problems down the line. How recreational drugs are being replaced by social media is a good example of this; less harm to the body, undeniably good, but still harmful to the mind, and enabling new industries to pop up and find new ways to exploit people. To be clear my problems aren't with Ozempic, and I believe it should be researched further and, if safe (which seems to be the case), widely available. But the fact is that many nations are able to maintain healthy weight without drugs, and I think if we fail to continue asking why that is, the same societal patterns that led to self-destructive individual behavior in the first place will remain unaddressed.

thisisnotauser 2y ago
The destructive behavior is overeating and this treatment eliminates the overeating. The problem is human beings are imperfect creatures. This drugs corrects the hormone imbalance that leads to overeating. It is fixing the actual problem. The idea that medical treatment makes us weaker is genuinely harmful nonsense on the order of claiming vaccines make us sick, and you should seriously reconsider your position here.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- bobbylarrybobby 2y ago
  Where did these hormone imbalances come from, when and why did they arise, why aren't they uniformly distributed across the globe? Answering these questions may lead to a root cause of obesity and obviate the need for medication altogether.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    Do you believe overeating to not be the equivalent of depression, schizophrenia, addiction, or bipolar disorder requiring medical intervention? If so, why? This is brain chemistry.
    - atomicnumber3 2y ago
      Suppose a country had very low rates of depression, and another had very high rates. Is that just brain chemistry? Or does maybe one country have problems that cause many people to have depression? Or to push subclinical tendencies into clinical territory? The US is that but for obesity. Yes, absolutely some individuals have brain chemistry that predisposes them to this. But also maybe it's related to the cheapest and easiest forms of food being McDonald's-tier shit and 64oz beverages that are literally so much sugar that it would be unpalatable were it not dissolved in acid and carbonated?
      - toomuchtodo 2y ago
        https://data.worldobesity.org/rankings/ https://data.worldobesity.org/rankings/ https://www.who.int/activities/controlling-the-global-obesity-epidemic https://www.who.int/activities/controlling-the-global-obesit... The US isn’t even the top 9. Obesity is a global epidemic of Western disease. The food isn’t the cause, it’s the symptom of the brain chemistry. If it isn’t available, yes, the disease may not present. But if available, due to hormones causing the drive, it presents. Like cigarettes (nicotine), like cocaine, like alcoholism. Same reward center. https://recursiveadaptation.com/p/the-growing-scientific-case-for-using https://recursiveadaptation.com/p/the-growing-scientific-cas... Are we more likely to give GLP-1s to everyone? Or outlaw calorie dense, nutrition lacking products? I argue the former, based on all available evidence.
        Snoozle 2y ago
        Nobody was suggesting solutions, but in regards to GLP-1 agonists as solving the 'problem' perfectly, no, it's just solving the symptoms. The problem is scientific advancement creating hyper palatable food and drink with no nutritional value and low satiety, combined with the food drive increases that comes with eating and drinking that food, combined with the removal of general fitness and mobility as a core requirement to being able to receive food and drink. I'm not saying there's a way to put back in the box but let's not kid ourselves that these drugs are a perfect solution either.
- LostMyLogin 2y ago
  > The idea that medical treatment makes us weaker Do you have any concern that it's an over correction and leads to significant undereating? Which is also terrible for you. Genuine question for the record.
- farts_mckensy 2y ago
  They're not saying medical treatment makes us weaker. Can you refute what they're saying without strawmanning them?
hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
I agree with everything you've written, and I think your thoughts about Ozempic are spot on. In the US, though, I don't mean to be super pessimistic but the problems are now so ingrained that I don't really see them improving for at least several generations. Stuff like: 1. Basically everywhere except for a few notable cities are organized around the car. Even if you wanted to walk places in a lot of towns it's near impossible or dangerous due to the road architecture. Fixing this now that it's built is an enormous challenge. I'll be long dead and gone before even a dent is made in it. 2. For decades we've been going in the wrong direction, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I'm often shocked and saddened by how, well, "thick" high schoolers are these days. Like when I was a kid, there were certainly "fat kids", but it really wasn't that common. And we had a joke that when people went to college they would gain the "freshman 15" due to the all-you-can-eat dining hall plans. To me it looks like the freshman 15 now starts for high school freshman. And while I don't have kids, I've also heard others say how childhood has drastically changed since I was a kid. So much "hanging out", which used to be a physical activity, is now just done on phones. Except for organized sports, kids these days get much less "ad hoc" physical activity. High school is usually the thinnest/most fit a lot of people will be in their lives, and so I think we've condemned a ton of kids to a lifetime of obesity and health problems. I'm all for changing our structural issues, but I'll take an imperfect solution now over something I don't think will come to pass for decades.
a_wild_dandan 2y ago
GLP-1 drugs offer palliative mercy for terminal societal malaise. You're in the bargaining stage.
andbberger 2y ago
name some nations that maintain healthy weight without drugs? your dogma isn't supported by the data. obesity is a public health problem and it's not caused simply by junk food
- ascorbic 2y ago
  Japan and South Korea. Much of southern Europe. It depends how you define healthy, but most of Europe has obesity rates below 20%. And that's just if you're counting rich countries.
  - andbberger 2y ago
    japan https://data.worldobesity.org/country/japan-105/#data_trends https://data.worldobesity.org/country/japan-105/#data_trends south korea https://data.worldobesity.org/country/south-korea-114/#data_trends https://data.worldobesity.org/country/south-korea-114/#data_... spain https://data.worldobesity.org/country/spain-199/#data_trends https://data.worldobesity.org/country/spain-199/#data_trends greece https://data.worldobesity.org/country/greece-80/#data_trends https://data.worldobesity.org/country/greece-80/#data_trends
    - appleorchard46 2y ago
      The linked data for Greece shows an obesity rate of ~17%, less than half the US' ~42%. https://data.worldobesity.org/country/united-states-227/#data_trends https://data.worldobesity.org/country/united-states-227/#dat...

thisisnotauser 2y ago

The destructive behavior is overeating and this treatment eliminates the overeating. The problem is human beings are imperfect creatures. This drugs corrects the hormone imbalance that leads to overeating. It is fixing the actual problem. The idea that medical treatment makes us weaker is genuinely harmful nonsense on the order of claiming vaccines make us sick, and you should seriously reconsider your position here.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bobbylarrybobby 2y ago
Where did these hormone imbalances come from, when and why did they arise, why aren't they uniformly distributed across the globe? Answering these questions may lead to a root cause of obesity and obviate the need for medication altogether.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Do you believe overeating to not be the equivalent of depression, schizophrenia, addiction, or bipolar disorder requiring medical intervention? If so, why? This is brain chemistry.
  - atomicnumber3 2y ago
    Suppose a country had very low rates of depression, and another had very high rates. Is that just brain chemistry? Or does maybe one country have problems that cause many people to have depression? Or to push subclinical tendencies into clinical territory? The US is that but for obesity. Yes, absolutely some individuals have brain chemistry that predisposes them to this. But also maybe it's related to the cheapest and easiest forms of food being McDonald's-tier shit and 64oz beverages that are literally so much sugar that it would be unpalatable were it not dissolved in acid and carbonated?
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      https://data.worldobesity.org/rankings/ https://data.worldobesity.org/rankings/ https://www.who.int/activities/controlling-the-global-obesity-epidemic https://www.who.int/activities/controlling-the-global-obesit... The US isn’t even the top 9. Obesity is a global epidemic of Western disease. The food isn’t the cause, it’s the symptom of the brain chemistry. If it isn’t available, yes, the disease may not present. But if available, due to hormones causing the drive, it presents. Like cigarettes (nicotine), like cocaine, like alcoholism. Same reward center. https://recursiveadaptation.com/p/the-growing-scientific-case-for-using https://recursiveadaptation.com/p/the-growing-scientific-cas... Are we more likely to give GLP-1s to everyone? Or outlaw calorie dense, nutrition lacking products? I argue the former, based on all available evidence.
      - Snoozle 2y ago
        Nobody was suggesting solutions, but in regards to GLP-1 agonists as solving the 'problem' perfectly, no, it's just solving the symptoms. The problem is scientific advancement creating hyper palatable food and drink with no nutritional value and low satiety, combined with the food drive increases that comes with eating and drinking that food, combined with the removal of general fitness and mobility as a core requirement to being able to receive food and drink. I'm not saying there's a way to put back in the box but let's not kid ourselves that these drugs are a perfect solution either.
LostMyLogin 2y ago
> The idea that medical treatment makes us weaker Do you have any concern that it's an over correction and leads to significant undereating? Which is also terrible for you. Genuine question for the record.
farts_mckensy 2y ago
They're not saying medical treatment makes us weaker. Can you refute what they're saying without strawmanning them?

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago

I agree with everything you've written, and I think your thoughts about Ozempic are spot on. In the US, though, I don't mean to be super pessimistic but the problems are now so ingrained that I don't really see them improving for at least several generations. Stuff like: 1. Basically everywhere except for a few notable cities are organized around the car. Even if you wanted to walk places in a lot of towns it's near impossible or dangerous due to the road architecture. Fixing this now that it's built is an enormous challenge. I'll be long dead and gone before even a dent is made in it. 2. For decades we've been going in the wrong direction, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I'm often shocked and saddened by how, well, "thick" high schoolers are these days. Like when I was a kid, there were certainly "fat kids", but it really wasn't that common. And we had a joke that when people went to college they would gain the "freshman 15" due to the all-you-can-eat dining hall plans. To me it looks like the freshman 15 now starts for high school freshman. And while I don't have kids, I've also heard others say how childhood has drastically changed since I was a kid. So much "hanging out", which used to be a physical activity, is now just done on phones. Except for organized sports, kids these days get much less "ad hoc" physical activity. High school is usually the thinnest/most fit a lot of people will be in their lives, and so I think we've condemned a ton of kids to a lifetime of obesity and health problems. I'm all for changing our structural issues, but I'll take an imperfect solution now over something I don't think will come to pass for decades.

a_wild_dandan 2y ago

GLP-1 drugs offer palliative mercy for terminal societal malaise. You're in the bargaining stage.

andbberger 2y ago

name some nations that maintain healthy weight without drugs? your dogma isn't supported by the data. obesity is a public health problem and it's not caused simply by junk food

ascorbic 2y ago
Japan and South Korea. Much of southern Europe. It depends how you define healthy, but most of Europe has obesity rates below 20%. And that's just if you're counting rich countries.
- andbberger 2y ago
  japan https://data.worldobesity.org/country/japan-105/#data_trends https://data.worldobesity.org/country/japan-105/#data_trends south korea https://data.worldobesity.org/country/south-korea-114/#data_trends https://data.worldobesity.org/country/south-korea-114/#data_... spain https://data.worldobesity.org/country/spain-199/#data_trends https://data.worldobesity.org/country/spain-199/#data_trends greece https://data.worldobesity.org/country/greece-80/#data_trends https://data.worldobesity.org/country/greece-80/#data_trends
  - appleorchard46 2y ago
    The linked data for Greece shows an obesity rate of ~17%, less than half the US' ~42%. https://data.worldobesity.org/country/united-states-227/#data_trends https://data.worldobesity.org/country/united-states-227/#dat...