3 ms·

Are you assuming that the current makeup of the civil service is ideologically diverse? It isn't. There were no conservatives at 18F.

hypothesis 2y ago
Is DOGE ideologically diverse? From recent reporting it also looks like a bunch of white men primarily.
- invig 2y ago
  White men can't be ideologically diverse?
  - defrost 2y ago
    > W̶h̶i̶t̶e̶ m̶e̶n̶ DOGE can't be ideologically diverse? In theory DOGE could be diverse. In practice, at this specific time there's no real indication they're age diverse, gender diverse, or even messiah diverse.
    - invig 2y ago
      You don't really mean "ideologically" there do you?
      - defrost 2y ago
        By "there" do you mean > W̶h̶i̶t̶e̶ m̶e̶n̶ DOGE can't be ideologically diverse? where I "quoted" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43228120 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43228120 which "quoted" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43225916 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43225916 by performing s/ DOGE / White men / and I returned by performing s/ White men / DOGE / ? You would first have to ask scarab92, dragonwriter, and hypothesis if they ' really mean "ideologically" ' and then address the question of why did you substitute DOGE with White men .. which is all getting a tad meta for me. As for that part of "there" ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43228187 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43228187 ) which is all me .. I very much meant that the DOGE operatives do not appear to suffer from any form of diversity by any metric. Perhaps they differ by meme coin preference?
        invig 2y ago
        I get what you're trying to say, but 'ideologically diverse' doesn’t really work that way—it’s about ideas, not how things look on the surface.
defrost 2y ago
That's one of the side effects of hiring on merit rather than voting patterns The best of the best that actually want to take part in making effective change for the better within goverment services will tend to have a progressive outlook. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18F
- invig 2y ago
  You're not seriously making the case that the government was hiring strictly based on merit are you?
  - defrost 2y ago
    I'm more interested in the original claim that there were no (zero, nada, < epsilon) conservatives at 18F. Particularly if the tent is broadened to include traditional pre-Trumpian conservatives.
    - invig 2y ago
      What percentage should there be?
      - defrost 2y ago
        Zero, as claimed, seems unlikely. "Should" seems prescriptive. Within a standard deviation of the mean general distribution for the US Federal service would be probable by the Central Limit Theorem.
        invig 2y ago
        Why bound it to the US Federal service?
- yusaythat 2y ago
  I love how it's "We KNOW diversity makes us stronger" kinda stuff right up till it's all people you agree with then we don't need diversity any more and it's all merit. I've known this was true forever but it's interesting seeing it said out loud now.
Ancapistani 2y ago
This is exactly what I was saying in another thread, but wasn’t able to put so clearly.
Volundr 2y ago
> There were no conservatives at 18F. And we know this how?
dragonwriter 2y ago
> Are you assuming that the current makeup of the civil service is ideologically diverse? On the whole. Yes. Given the lengths of careers, the structure of the civil service system (both the formal structure and the way it has, until last month, been applied in practice), and the different and (in some areas more than others regional and occupational-area biases in who is attracted to it, that would be hard to avoid. > There were no conservatives at 18F. Even if that were true, the mass firings of federal civil servants haven't been limited to 18F.

hypothesis 2y ago

Is DOGE ideologically diverse? From recent reporting it also looks like a bunch of white men primarily.

invig 2y ago
White men can't be ideologically diverse?
- defrost 2y ago
  > W̶h̶i̶t̶e̶ m̶e̶n̶ DOGE can't be ideologically diverse? In theory DOGE could be diverse. In practice, at this specific time there's no real indication they're age diverse, gender diverse, or even messiah diverse.
  - invig 2y ago
    You don't really mean "ideologically" there do you?
    - defrost 2y ago
      By "there" do you mean > W̶h̶i̶t̶e̶ m̶e̶n̶ DOGE can't be ideologically diverse? where I "quoted" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43228120 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43228120 which "quoted" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43225916 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43225916 by performing s/ DOGE / White men / and I returned by performing s/ White men / DOGE / ? You would first have to ask scarab92, dragonwriter, and hypothesis if they ' really mean "ideologically" ' and then address the question of why did you substitute DOGE with White men .. which is all getting a tad meta for me. As for that part of "there" ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43228187 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43228187 ) which is all me .. I very much meant that the DOGE operatives do not appear to suffer from any form of diversity by any metric. Perhaps they differ by meme coin preference?
      - invig 2y ago
        I get what you're trying to say, but 'ideologically diverse' doesn’t really work that way—it’s about ideas, not how things look on the surface.

defrost 2y ago

That's one of the side effects of hiring on merit rather than voting patterns The best of the best that actually want to take part in making effective change for the better within goverment services will tend to have a progressive outlook. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18F

invig 2y ago
You're not seriously making the case that the government was hiring strictly based on merit are you?
- defrost 2y ago
  I'm more interested in the original claim that there were no (zero, nada, < epsilon) conservatives at 18F. Particularly if the tent is broadened to include traditional pre-Trumpian conservatives.
  - invig 2y ago
    What percentage should there be?
    - defrost 2y ago
      Zero, as claimed, seems unlikely. "Should" seems prescriptive. Within a standard deviation of the mean general distribution for the US Federal service would be probable by the Central Limit Theorem.
      - invig 2y ago
        Why bound it to the US Federal service?
yusaythat 2y ago
I love how it's "We KNOW diversity makes us stronger" kinda stuff right up till it's all people you agree with then we don't need diversity any more and it's all merit. I've known this was true forever but it's interesting seeing it said out loud now.

Ancapistani 2y ago

This is exactly what I was saying in another thread, but wasn’t able to put so clearly.

Volundr 2y ago

> There were no conservatives at 18F. And we know this how?

dragonwriter 2y ago

> Are you assuming that the current makeup of the civil service is ideologically diverse? On the whole. Yes. Given the lengths of careers, the structure of the civil service system (both the formal structure and the way it has, until last month, been applied in practice), and the different and (in some areas more than others regional and occupational-area biases in who is attracted to it, that would be hard to avoid. > There were no conservatives at 18F. Even if that were true, the mass firings of federal civil servants haven't been limited to 18F.