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And if you think it's ok to use national security means to spy on foreign companies to rig the economic competition and if you think a human being from another

And if you think it's ok to use national security means to spy on foreign companies to rig the economic competition and if you think a human being from another country has less rights to privacy than one with a US passport, apply.

briandear 14y ago
Right. Because China and France would never do that. One of the primary purposes of French Intelligence is industrial espionage. Before you make ignorant statements about the NSA how about getting some facts? Also, if those 'human beings' are trying to blow up Americans, then I don't care about their rights. I have a right for my kid to not get killed while traveling on the subway. I have a right to not have bombs blowing up while out at a nightclub. Is the NSA perfect? Of course not, but it's a dangerous imperfect world. When people stop blowing shit up in the name of their deity, then I'll gladly revise my opinion of the relevance for the NSA. Where's your outrage over Syrian and Iranian Intelligence and their tactics? How about North Korean intelligence and their wholesale kidnapping of hundreds of Japanese citizens? How about the Chinese and their operations in the US? It's a popular sport to pick on the US from the safety of an armchair, but it's quite another to address the reasons the NSA and CIA do what they do. I'm not defending all of the actions of those agencies, but I will certainly defend their mission and goals. The fact that you can even safely criticize the NSA and feel secure that you won't be arrested is a testament to the freedoms the NSA helps preserve. Spend ten minutes in China and start posting messages about their MSS and see how long your comment stays up (and how long before you get a visit from a local Public Security Bureau officer.)
- sp332 14y ago
  Where's your outrage over Syrian and Iranian Intelligence and their tactics? Your entire rant is irrelevant. Independently of how much you dislike foreign agencies, working for the NSA might also pose ethical problems.
  - briandear 14y ago
    Murder is unethical, but when you're at war..
- lawnchair_larry 14y ago
  False dichotomy. You're only comparing it to the worst examples. Let's assume that the NSA doesn't spy on Americans, and what they say about only collecting data on foreigners is accurate (haha). Why do the Swiss have no privacy rights? Australians? Canadians? What makes any of their average citizens not worthy of respecting? They don't "export terror" or have large scale state-sponsored abuses.
- thinkingisfun 14y ago
  "Where's your outrage over Syrian and Iranian Intelligence and their tactics?" Even though this isn't addressed at me, my response would be: Where it belongs, in conversations with Syrian and Iranian intelligence officials. For all we know, they excuse what they do with what the US is doing. There was the cold war, then that ended, and without missing a beat military budgets kept growing. Now there's Al Quaeda (former resistance fighters against the Soviet Union, whee), and China. There's always something. It's propaganda 101, and they do the same. The game isn't "nation X against nation Y", it's elites in all nations against their populations. "I'm not defending all of the actions of those agencies, but I will certainly defend their mission and goals." But we ARE talking about their actual actions, instead of their espoused goals, so how is that relevant? We get it, it's not nice for drones to see free people... then just look elsewhere, because we aren't going away.
- mcantelon 14y ago
  >The fact that you can even safely criticize the NSA and feel secure that you won't be arrested is a testament to the freedoms the NSA helps preserve The NSA going against the Constitution and conducting mass domestic surveillance is a funny way of "preserving freedom". By offering uncritical support of institutions that undermine freedom you are working against freedom and helping the US continue to move in the direction of China.

briandear 14y ago

Right. Because China and France would never do that. One of the primary purposes of French Intelligence is industrial espionage. Before you make ignorant statements about the NSA how about getting some facts? Also, if those 'human beings' are trying to blow up Americans, then I don't care about their rights. I have a right for my kid to not get killed while traveling on the subway. I have a right to not have bombs blowing up while out at a nightclub. Is the NSA perfect? Of course not, but it's a dangerous imperfect world. When people stop blowing shit up in the name of their deity, then I'll gladly revise my opinion of the relevance for the NSA. Where's your outrage over Syrian and Iranian Intelligence and their tactics? How about North Korean intelligence and their wholesale kidnapping of hundreds of Japanese citizens? How about the Chinese and their operations in the US? It's a popular sport to pick on the US from the safety of an armchair, but it's quite another to address the reasons the NSA and CIA do what they do. I'm not defending all of the actions of those agencies, but I will certainly defend their mission and goals. The fact that you can even safely criticize the NSA and feel secure that you won't be arrested is a testament to the freedoms the NSA helps preserve. Spend ten minutes in China and start posting messages about their MSS and see how long your comment stays up (and how long before you get a visit from a local Public Security Bureau officer.)

sp332 14y ago
Where's your outrage over Syrian and Iranian Intelligence and their tactics? Your entire rant is irrelevant. Independently of how much you dislike foreign agencies, working for the NSA might also pose ethical problems.
- briandear 14y ago
  Murder is unethical, but when you're at war..
lawnchair_larry 14y ago
False dichotomy. You're only comparing it to the worst examples. Let's assume that the NSA doesn't spy on Americans, and what they say about only collecting data on foreigners is accurate (haha). Why do the Swiss have no privacy rights? Australians? Canadians? What makes any of their average citizens not worthy of respecting? They don't "export terror" or have large scale state-sponsored abuses.
thinkingisfun 14y ago
"Where's your outrage over Syrian and Iranian Intelligence and their tactics?" Even though this isn't addressed at me, my response would be: Where it belongs, in conversations with Syrian and Iranian intelligence officials. For all we know, they excuse what they do with what the US is doing. There was the cold war, then that ended, and without missing a beat military budgets kept growing. Now there's Al Quaeda (former resistance fighters against the Soviet Union, whee), and China. There's always something. It's propaganda 101, and they do the same. The game isn't "nation X against nation Y", it's elites in all nations against their populations. "I'm not defending all of the actions of those agencies, but I will certainly defend their mission and goals." But we ARE talking about their actual actions, instead of their espoused goals, so how is that relevant? We get it, it's not nice for drones to see free people... then just look elsewhere, because we aren't going away.
mcantelon 14y ago
>The fact that you can even safely criticize the NSA and feel secure that you won't be arrested is a testament to the freedoms the NSA helps preserve The NSA going against the Constitution and conducting mass domestic surveillance is a funny way of "preserving freedom". By offering uncritical support of institutions that undermine freedom you are working against freedom and helping the US continue to move in the direction of China.