5 ms·

I'm starting to think that the US is done for, short of a civil war to stop it they'll never get out of the damage done by four years of this.

palata 2y ago
> short of a civil war to stop it Remember that the Trump administration still has large support from the people! If you want a civil war, you need people inside the country who disagree. For some reason they don't (yet), and at the time they do who knows how much damage will have been done.
- krapp 2y ago
  Please stop spreading propaganda. Most Americans don't support Trump. At best, a third of Americans voted for him in 2024, which means two-thirds didn't. And he's rapidly losing support within his own base, from people who didn't expect him to go as far as he has, or didn't expect the ramifications to apply to them.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - krapp 2y ago
      Friend, I didn't post propaganda or rhetoric, I posted math. Feel free to post sources to the contrary, or explain what you consider misleading. Simply claiming that everything is propaganda is neither constructive nor interesting conversation.
      - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2y ago
        Are you familiar with relatively common phrase that originated from "Lies, damned lies, and statistics"[1]? I am curious. Not whether you do, but how you will respond. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies%2C_damned_lies%2C_and_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies%2C_damned_lies%2C_and_sta...
      - account42 2y ago
        No, you posted copium. People not voting doesn't mean that they don't support Trump, it only menas they didn't bother to vote. The baseline assumption is that non-voters have the same distribution of opinions as voters. If you want to make a different argument you better back it up with more than "TRUMP BAD".
  - palata 2y ago
    > Most Americans don't support Trump. I didn't say "most americans", did I? > And he's rapidly losing support within his own base Weeks (and 3 nazi salutes) after he started, polls were showing that he would probably still be elected: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43206757 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43206757. I don't feel like I'm spreading propaganda by saying that the US don't seem very close to a civil war. A majority of the voters elected this government and apparently won't change their mind unless they are impacted personally. > And he's rapidly losing support within his own base That depends a lot on what you mean by "rapidly". Relative to how quickly he has destroyed the image of the US abroad, and to the damage he is making inside the country, I wouldn't say that some people from his own base finding that he is going slightly too far counts as "rapidly losing support within his own base".
    - Tainnor 2y ago
      You don't need a majority of people to start a revolution or a civil war, there are plenty of historical examples for that.
      - palata 2y ago
        Sure, but you need quite a few people ready to fight. And if it is the case that Trump would still be elected today, it suggests that all the voters and most of the non-voters (who don't care enought to vote) and at least some of those who would now vote against the nazi-friendly government are not exactly ready to fight. You need a lot of very unhappy people to get to civil war. And right now it doesn't seem like the US people is that unhappy. Right now the US is mostly hurting the rest of the West.
- JeremyNT 2y ago
  This shouldn't be down voted. Trump has more support now than he did in his first term. His support is durable and lasting. It's difficult to imagine what might cause his supporters to change their options of him. If the election were held again, today, he would still win.
  - eterps 2y ago
    > It's difficult to imagine what might cause his supporters to change their options of him. It would be helpful if people had more alternatives to vote for, not just one other party that stands for the opposite.
    - palata 2y ago
      That's for sure, but on the other hand, in many countries the people would choose whoever doesn't normalise (and make) nazi salutes...
      - eterps 2y ago
        It's more nuanced than it might appear at first glance. I recommend watching this video, as it demonstrates the subtle complexities involved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_sVwib2rdE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_sVwib2rdE
        palata 2y ago
        The current government threatens to invade allies (well, ex allies now) and make nazi salutes, but would still win the election. And those are only two examples out of many. You can put as much nuance as you want, fascism is fascism.
      - account42 2y ago
        It would also help if the opposing site had better arguments than calling those they don't like nazis and fascists.
  - account42 2y ago
account42 2y ago
Get a grip of yourself. The US survived the previous clown administration, it will survive this one.
- francasso 2y ago
  Honestly, I'm not sure, I don't know how you can look at the actions Trump took in the last few days and not at least consider the possibility that he is russian asset.

palata 2y ago

> short of a civil war to stop it Remember that the Trump administration still has large support from the people! If you want a civil war, you need people inside the country who disagree. For some reason they don't (yet), and at the time they do who knows how much damage will have been done.

krapp 2y ago
Please stop spreading propaganda. Most Americans don't support Trump. At best, a third of Americans voted for him in 2024, which means two-thirds didn't. And he's rapidly losing support within his own base, from people who didn't expect him to go as far as he has, or didn't expect the ramifications to apply to them.
- A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - krapp 2y ago
    Friend, I didn't post propaganda or rhetoric, I posted math. Feel free to post sources to the contrary, or explain what you consider misleading. Simply claiming that everything is propaganda is neither constructive nor interesting conversation.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2y ago
      Are you familiar with relatively common phrase that originated from "Lies, damned lies, and statistics"[1]? I am curious. Not whether you do, but how you will respond. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies%2C_damned_lies%2C_and_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies%2C_damned_lies%2C_and_sta...
    - account42 2y ago
      No, you posted copium. People not voting doesn't mean that they don't support Trump, it only menas they didn't bother to vote. The baseline assumption is that non-voters have the same distribution of opinions as voters. If you want to make a different argument you better back it up with more than "TRUMP BAD".
- palata 2y ago
  > Most Americans don't support Trump. I didn't say "most americans", did I? > And he's rapidly losing support within his own base Weeks (and 3 nazi salutes) after he started, polls were showing that he would probably still be elected: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43206757 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43206757. I don't feel like I'm spreading propaganda by saying that the US don't seem very close to a civil war. A majority of the voters elected this government and apparently won't change their mind unless they are impacted personally. > And he's rapidly losing support within his own base That depends a lot on what you mean by "rapidly". Relative to how quickly he has destroyed the image of the US abroad, and to the damage he is making inside the country, I wouldn't say that some people from his own base finding that he is going slightly too far counts as "rapidly losing support within his own base".
  - Tainnor 2y ago
    You don't need a majority of people to start a revolution or a civil war, there are plenty of historical examples for that.
    - palata 2y ago
      Sure, but you need quite a few people ready to fight. And if it is the case that Trump would still be elected today, it suggests that all the voters and most of the non-voters (who don't care enought to vote) and at least some of those who would now vote against the nazi-friendly government are not exactly ready to fight. You need a lot of very unhappy people to get to civil war. And right now it doesn't seem like the US people is that unhappy. Right now the US is mostly hurting the rest of the West.
JeremyNT 2y ago
This shouldn't be down voted. Trump has more support now than he did in his first term. His support is durable and lasting. It's difficult to imagine what might cause his supporters to change their options of him. If the election were held again, today, he would still win.
- eterps 2y ago
  > It's difficult to imagine what might cause his supporters to change their options of him. It would be helpful if people had more alternatives to vote for, not just one other party that stands for the opposite.
  - palata 2y ago
    That's for sure, but on the other hand, in many countries the people would choose whoever doesn't normalise (and make) nazi salutes...
    - eterps 2y ago
      It's more nuanced than it might appear at first glance. I recommend watching this video, as it demonstrates the subtle complexities involved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_sVwib2rdE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_sVwib2rdE
      - palata 2y ago
        The current government threatens to invade allies (well, ex allies now) and make nazi salutes, but would still win the election. And those are only two examples out of many. You can put as much nuance as you want, fascism is fascism.
    - account42 2y ago
      It would also help if the opposing site had better arguments than calling those they don't like nazis and fascists.
- account42 2y ago

account42 2y ago

Get a grip of yourself. The US survived the previous clown administration, it will survive this one.

francasso 2y ago
Honestly, I'm not sure, I don't know how you can look at the actions Trump took in the last few days and not at least consider the possibility that he is russian asset.