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And this is why we "got Trump again". The inability on the left to reason with clear allies in it's own coalition was a big part of the voter turnout problem.

by ajross 2y ago

And this is why we "got Trump again". The inability on the left to reason with clear allies in it's own coalition was a big part of the voter turnout problem. Yes, there are jews, even zionist ones, in power within the democratic aparatus. There are capitalist democrats. Even billionaires. And every one of them wanted to work with you to prevent this from happening, but you took your toys and went home instead reasoning that it was more important to punish your allies than keep your actual enemies out of power. Because at the end of the day this is what you wanted. The ability to say "Dems won't be fixing this problem" is more important to you than fixing the problem.

coldpie 2y ago
I've voted D in every election of my life, including Biden and Harris. Don't put this on me. Dems had their chance. They propped up a barely functioning, senile old man to respond to Republicans' threats, and he failed to do anything to stop what was coming (eg put Trump and the other Jan 6 ringleaders in jail, expand the Supreme Court, DC and PR statehood, literally anything). Dems just aren't up to the task. > Because at the end of the day this is what you wanted. The ability to say "Dems won't be fixing this problem" is more important to you than fixing the problem. This is so far out of line, an appropriate reply would rightly get me removed from HN.
- sirolimus 2y ago
  This is a very common human reaction. When things don't change quickly enough, a more radical approach ends up being taken even though it almost never is the right approach. It's the same reason why people don't like Java. It's Old, verbose and stable, but who wants that. That's why people like Javascript, but at the end of the day, Java is the best. Stable and boring and slow politics is the good politics. Not this shit that's happening right now.
  - coldpie 2y ago
    This has been the Dem strategy for my entire life, yes. You are seeing the outcome of this strategy now. I argue it is not yielding desirable results, and they should try something else.
    - ajross 2y ago
      > I argue it is not yielding desirable results, and they should try something else. You actually aren't arguing that. You're just saying the first bit. You need to detail "something else", otherwise you're just throwing bombs with no value to anything except your ego.
      - coldpie 2y ago
        I listed three concrete actions Dems could have taken or attempted, and didn't. You should try actually reading the posts you're responding to. You're angry at someone who isn't me.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - sirolimus 2y ago
      The world is complicated and things take time. The current HORRIBLE alternative is far worse than the undesirable results from the Dem strategy your entire life.
      - coldpie 2y ago
        Yes, obviously. I'm saying the current situation is partly the result of Dems like Biden not taking action to prevent it.
        ajross 2y ago
        > Yes, obviously. I'm saying the current situation is partly the result of Dems like Biden not taking action to prevent it. That statement is tautological (literally everything happens because something didn't prevent it). It's also not consistent with your much less considered verbiage above that somehow this was "all (not partly) on Democrats".
  - ajross 2y ago
    > a more radical approach ends up being taken even though it almost never is the right approach. To be clearer: a more radical approach is being taken. And some people on the left genuinely prefer the situation to a Harris administration. There was never a constituency for... whatever it is the current argument is demanding[1]. It wasn't on the menu, so the next best thing is humiliation for the other members of the coalition. [1] The fact that the framing is "Biden bad" and not "Biden should have X" is telling!
anon743448 2y ago
There were many people who felt backstabbed under Biden. Their world was turned upside down and majority of democrats stayed quiet. These people didn’t vote not because they wanted to punish their allies, but because they are still in shock. This is not new for them. And now majority of democrats are seeing their world turn upside down too. Maybe this will eventually unite and organize the left, maybe not. But Biden has done too much damage to democrats.
- ajross 2y ago
  > And now majority of democrats are seeing their world turn upside down too. Not me. I'm a white tech liberal expecting a big tax cut. Maybe I'll just sit this one out. The hippies have done too much damage to Democrats. See how that logic works? Make peace or don't, but in a democracy you can't demand conformity, you'll just lose.

by ajross 2y ago

coldpie 2y ago

I've voted D in every election of my life, including Biden and Harris. Don't put this on me. Dems had their chance. They propped up a barely functioning, senile old man to respond to Republicans' threats, and he failed to do anything to stop what was coming (eg put Trump and the other Jan 6 ringleaders in jail, expand the Supreme Court, DC and PR statehood, literally anything). Dems just aren't up to the task. > Because at the end of the day this is what you wanted. The ability to say "Dems won't be fixing this problem" is more important to you than fixing the problem. This is so far out of line, an appropriate reply would rightly get me removed from HN.

sirolimus 2y ago
This is a very common human reaction. When things don't change quickly enough, a more radical approach ends up being taken even though it almost never is the right approach. It's the same reason why people don't like Java. It's Old, verbose and stable, but who wants that. That's why people like Javascript, but at the end of the day, Java is the best. Stable and boring and slow politics is the good politics. Not this shit that's happening right now.
- coldpie 2y ago
  This has been the Dem strategy for my entire life, yes. You are seeing the outcome of this strategy now. I argue it is not yielding desirable results, and they should try something else.
  - ajross 2y ago
    > I argue it is not yielding desirable results, and they should try something else. You actually aren't arguing that. You're just saying the first bit. You need to detail "something else", otherwise you're just throwing bombs with no value to anything except your ego.
    - coldpie 2y ago
      I listed three concrete actions Dems could have taken or attempted, and didn't. You should try actually reading the posts you're responding to. You're angry at someone who isn't me.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
  - sirolimus 2y ago
    The world is complicated and things take time. The current HORRIBLE alternative is far worse than the undesirable results from the Dem strategy your entire life.
    - coldpie 2y ago
      Yes, obviously. I'm saying the current situation is partly the result of Dems like Biden not taking action to prevent it.
      - ajross 2y ago
        > Yes, obviously. I'm saying the current situation is partly the result of Dems like Biden not taking action to prevent it. That statement is tautological (literally everything happens because something didn't prevent it). It's also not consistent with your much less considered verbiage above that somehow this was "all (not partly) on Democrats".
- ajross 2y ago
  > a more radical approach ends up being taken even though it almost never is the right approach. To be clearer: a more radical approach is being taken. And some people on the left genuinely prefer the situation to a Harris administration. There was never a constituency for... whatever it is the current argument is demanding[1]. It wasn't on the menu, so the next best thing is humiliation for the other members of the coalition. [1] The fact that the framing is "Biden bad" and not "Biden should have X" is telling!

anon743448 2y ago

There were many people who felt backstabbed under Biden. Their world was turned upside down and majority of democrats stayed quiet. These people didn’t vote not because they wanted to punish their allies, but because they are still in shock. This is not new for them. And now majority of democrats are seeing their world turn upside down too. Maybe this will eventually unite and organize the left, maybe not. But Biden has done too much damage to democrats.

ajross 2y ago
> And now majority of democrats are seeing their world turn upside down too. Not me. I'm a white tech liberal expecting a big tax cut. Maybe I'll just sit this one out. The hippies have done too much damage to Democrats. See how that logic works? Make peace or don't, but in a democracy you can't demand conformity, you'll just lose.