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We had very many guns per capita by the end of apartheid and people were predicting exactly what you're predicting. Nothing like that happened. The guns were la

by lerouxb 14y ago

We had very many guns per capita by the end of apartheid and people were predicting exactly what you're predicting. Nothing like that happened. The guns were largely destroyed. Now I don't even know anyone that owns one. I don't even know anyone that would argue that a gun would make them safer. But are we at least on the same page that your 300 million guns IS the problem? Potential civil war and all. There are frequent stories of people being killed using their own guns. Guns just escalate situations and they aren't very helpful when your attackers have the initiative. I have been mugged by someone carrying a pistol and I am absolutely sure that the situation wouldn't have played out any different even if I could replay it 100 times and even if I had years of training and even if I carried my own concealed weapon: Walk home in the dark in a bad neighborhood, guy jumps out of nowhere and sticks a pistol in your face, you hand him your wallet that has no cash in it anyway, everyone walks away. Oh I suppose afterwards I could have shot him in the back (if he didn't find my hypothetical concealed weapon) and go to jail for the rest of my life. Yes I agree - it would play out exactly the same if he held a knife against my throat.

learc83 14y ago
>We had very many guns per capita by the end of apartheid and people were predicting exactly what you're predicting. Nothing like that happened. The guns were largely destroyed. There would be violence if guns were confiscated. South Africa had nowhere near the guns, and you had nowhere near the gun culture if all of your countrymen allowed their guns to be taken without serious resistance. I don't really care to get into a debate about the merits of owning a gun, I'm just trying to point out the * impossibility* in our current culture of banning firearms. However, I will point out that it's not as clearcut as you say. The statistics for either side are hotly debated. For example the deterrent effect of criminals knowing that citizens are likely to be armed is very hard to quantify. And yes if someone takes you by surprise a gun will be of little use, but being mugged is not the only way to be attacked. Thousands of homeowners have successfully defended themselves with firearms, and thousands of women have successfully defended themselves from sexual assaults with firearms.
philwelch 14y ago
The "potential civil war and all" is exactly the point. Private gun ownership is a constitutional right in America because we believe that government is legitimate only with the consent of the governed--and that the people deserve the power to revoke that consent by any means necessary. Historically, the impetus for gun control, and the turning point in the civil rights movement, can both be traced back to the awkward moment in history when American blacks came to this realization. Malcolm X and the founders of the Black Panthers were outspoken about the right to bear arms. Since then, largely by historical accident, the supposed "liberals" in America started caring about every civil right except for gun ownership, and the supposed "conservatives" started caring about guns. But make no mistake--the Second Amendment was, in the 18th, 20th, and 21st century alike, a radical liberal notion.

by lerouxb 14y ago

learc83 14y ago

>We had very many guns per capita by the end of apartheid and people were predicting exactly what you're predicting. Nothing like that happened. The guns were largely destroyed. There would be violence if guns were confiscated. South Africa had nowhere near the guns, and you had nowhere near the gun culture if all of your countrymen allowed their guns to be taken without serious resistance. I don't really care to get into a debate about the merits of owning a gun, I'm just trying to point out the * impossibility* in our current culture of banning firearms. However, I will point out that it's not as clearcut as you say. The statistics for either side are hotly debated. For example the deterrent effect of criminals knowing that citizens are likely to be armed is very hard to quantify. And yes if someone takes you by surprise a gun will be of little use, but being mugged is not the only way to be attacked. Thousands of homeowners have successfully defended themselves with firearms, and thousands of women have successfully defended themselves from sexual assaults with firearms.

philwelch 14y ago

The "potential civil war and all" is exactly the point. Private gun ownership is a constitutional right in America because we believe that government is legitimate only with the consent of the governed--and that the people deserve the power to revoke that consent by any means necessary. Historically, the impetus for gun control, and the turning point in the civil rights movement, can both be traced back to the awkward moment in history when American blacks came to this realization. Malcolm X and the founders of the Black Panthers were outspoken about the right to bear arms. Since then, largely by historical accident, the supposed "liberals" in America started caring about every civil right except for gun ownership, and the supposed "conservatives" started caring about guns. But make no mistake--the Second Amendment was, in the 18th, 20th, and 21st century alike, a radical liberal notion.