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What is the alternative you're proposing here? Russia has nukes. Your hubris will lead you to despair and either endless war or at least one nuclear bomb taking

by brink 2y ago

What is the alternative you're proposing here? Russia has nukes. Your hubris will lead you to despair and either endless war or at least one nuclear bomb taking out a city. I'm not trying to be "american", I'm trying to be rational.

4ndrewl 2y ago
Simple, Putin can simply withdraw his troops back to Russia. Instant peace.
- brink 2y ago
  That's not on the table. Putin will never do that, were tired of Europe and Ukraine pretending like it is.
  - 4ndrewl 2y ago
    What exactly is on the table? Putin will just stop? Don't make me laugh. You know his stated aims right?
    - brink 2y ago
      Looks like we'll have to find out who's right.
      - bigyabai 2y ago
        Strictly speaking, Ukraine already knows who's wrong. If Russia could be trusted without a security guarantee then the math might add up differently. There will never be another Minsk agreement though, with or without the US at the table. It's pathetic that any credible military leader would attempt to push that a second time.
  - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
    As you state, peace with Putin in not on the table. Your way is to grant him his every ambition, whatever that may be (historically taking territory piece by piece, be it in Georgia or Ukraine). The sanner way is to defeat Putin so that he is forced to stop now, not pause and continue his ambition after he heals some wounds. As you admit, Putin will NEVER not carry out his ambitions.
  - chabes 2y ago
    It could absolutely be on the table. The economy of Russia can only take so much of this war. Putin has little choice now. Trump is pretty much the only reason Russia will be able to keep up their attempted invasion.
TomK32 2y ago
Putin has been pushed back for three years without using nukes. Matter of fact, all countries with nuclear weapons have faces wars and even lost some. The sowiets didn't nuke Afghanistan, the USA didn't nuke Vietnam or <insert long list here>, even Israel didn't nuke Iran desite the 1980 classic by Vince Vance & the Valiants: Bomb Iran. Nukes are useless.

by brink 2y ago

4ndrewl 2y ago

Simple, Putin can simply withdraw his troops back to Russia. Instant peace.

brink 2y ago
That's not on the table. Putin will never do that, were tired of Europe and Ukraine pretending like it is.
- 4ndrewl 2y ago
  What exactly is on the table? Putin will just stop? Don't make me laugh. You know his stated aims right?
  - brink 2y ago
    Looks like we'll have to find out who's right.
    - bigyabai 2y ago
      Strictly speaking, Ukraine already knows who's wrong. If Russia could be trusted without a security guarantee then the math might add up differently. There will never be another Minsk agreement though, with or without the US at the table. It's pathetic that any credible military leader would attempt to push that a second time.
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  As you state, peace with Putin in not on the table. Your way is to grant him his every ambition, whatever that may be (historically taking territory piece by piece, be it in Georgia or Ukraine). The sanner way is to defeat Putin so that he is forced to stop now, not pause and continue his ambition after he heals some wounds. As you admit, Putin will NEVER not carry out his ambitions.
- chabes 2y ago
  It could absolutely be on the table. The economy of Russia can only take so much of this war. Putin has little choice now. Trump is pretty much the only reason Russia will be able to keep up their attempted invasion.

TomK32 2y ago

Putin has been pushed back for three years without using nukes. Matter of fact, all countries with nuclear weapons have faces wars and even lost some. The sowiets didn't nuke Afghanistan, the USA didn't nuke Vietnam or <insert long list here>, even Israel didn't nuke Iran desite the 1980 classic by Vince Vance & the Valiants: Bomb Iran. Nukes are useless.