4 ms·

I always thought that 18F would be the inspiration behind DOGE. Instead it seems to have become the opposite

acdha 2y ago
DOGE excuses the laws they’re breaking and the cost increases they’re incurring by claiming that there’s a crisis they have to respond to and that they’re so smart nobody else can do it. The last thing they need are smarter, more experienced people around who can show that none of those assertions are true and all of the costs being racked up are pure waste.
ronbenton 2y ago
The problem here is assuming DOGE’s stated goal is their real goal.
throwawaygovie 2y ago
18F, when it started, was viewed with suspicion by other federal agencies—here were these Silicon Valley know-it-alls, coming in to tell us how to do our jobs. So, basically DOGE. Except: 18F spent 10 years building trust in the government. As consultants, they met their clients where they were, and acted with empathy and understanding. This is pretty much the opposite of DOGE coming into an agency and seizing control. 18F’s model was geared toward continual improvement over time (“Move slowly and fix things”). It was, I think, a model with a more long term mindset than what is going on with DOGE.
roughly 2y ago
May I offer a proposal here? A great many people would've told you beforehand what DOGE was going to be and do (although I think most of us are a bit shocked about the speed and violence of the thing). I expect you heard some of it ahead of time, too. It may be worth updating your priors on the intents, beliefs, and capabilities of the people involved in this to match this new experience, and to apply those new priors as you hear new proposals and ideas from those same groups in the future.
- robwwilliams 2y ago
  Just did this. My spouse told me I was being far too optimistic about this new mis-Administration and the vector toward an Ayn-Randish kleptocracy. No more. I’m in now with people I would have considered conspiracy theorists two months ago.
  - Muromec 2y ago
    May I ask, have you discovered the wonderful world of mass protests and torching local policy headquarters or you are still waiting for another epiphany? I can't wait to send thoughs and prayers about whatever America's Tiananmen Square would be called. I would even write a twit full of empathy and a nice picture.
    - robwwilliams 2y ago
      Your phrasing is curious, but let me play this straight: No, never to that point. More in the pacific mode. Current phase: reduce expenditure and financial risk in tech. Consider a move to the west coast, or Canada (again). Maidan Square situation not inconceivable any more in quite a few countries. Too bad not in Russia though, or as you hint, in the PRC. Our Tiananmen would be the Washington Mall. And please don’t tweet: send condolences to your Mastodon account or HN. I’ll check this thread every few years.
- almostgotcaught 2y ago
  This isn't a real person you're counseling here. At least it's not a real worldview. Such a person that only now sheepishly is approaching a shift in perspective is an impossibility. There have been ample opportunities prior to this that have been much more horrendous and this person is presenting as if they interpreted all those things in an acceptable light. It's the Zeno's paradox of finally coming around - they pretend like they're getting closer and closer but they never arrive at the actual denunciation. I believe it's a rhetorical device to further cast doubt.

DOGE excuses the laws they’re breaking and the cost increases they’re incurring by claiming that there’s a crisis they have to respond to and that they’re so smart nobody else can do it. The last thing they need are smarter, more experienced people around who can show that none of those assertions are true and all of the costs being racked up are pure waste.

ronbenton 2y ago

The problem here is assuming DOGE’s stated goal is their real goal.

throwawaygovie 2y ago

18F, when it started, was viewed with suspicion by other federal agencies—here were these Silicon Valley know-it-alls, coming in to tell us how to do our jobs. So, basically DOGE. Except: 18F spent 10 years building trust in the government. As consultants, they met their clients where they were, and acted with empathy and understanding. This is pretty much the opposite of DOGE coming into an agency and seizing control. 18F’s model was geared toward continual improvement over time (“Move slowly and fix things”). It was, I think, a model with a more long term mindset than what is going on with DOGE.

roughly 2y ago

May I offer a proposal here? A great many people would've told you beforehand what DOGE was going to be and do (although I think most of us are a bit shocked about the speed and violence of the thing). I expect you heard some of it ahead of time, too. It may be worth updating your priors on the intents, beliefs, and capabilities of the people involved in this to match this new experience, and to apply those new priors as you hear new proposals and ideas from those same groups in the future.

robwwilliams 2y ago
Just did this. My spouse told me I was being far too optimistic about this new mis-Administration and the vector toward an Ayn-Randish kleptocracy. No more. I’m in now with people I would have considered conspiracy theorists two months ago.
- Muromec 2y ago
  May I ask, have you discovered the wonderful world of mass protests and torching local policy headquarters or you are still waiting for another epiphany? I can't wait to send thoughs and prayers about whatever America's Tiananmen Square would be called. I would even write a twit full of empathy and a nice picture.
  - robwwilliams 2y ago
    Your phrasing is curious, but let me play this straight: No, never to that point. More in the pacific mode. Current phase: reduce expenditure and financial risk in tech. Consider a move to the west coast, or Canada (again). Maidan Square situation not inconceivable any more in quite a few countries. Too bad not in Russia though, or as you hint, in the PRC. Our Tiananmen would be the Washington Mall. And please don’t tweet: send condolences to your Mastodon account or HN. I’ll check this thread every few years.
almostgotcaught 2y ago
This isn't a real person you're counseling here. At least it's not a real worldview. Such a person that only now sheepishly is approaching a shift in perspective is an impossibility. There have been ample opportunities prior to this that have been much more horrendous and this person is presenting as if they interpreted all those things in an acceptable light. It's the Zeno's paradox of finally coming around - they pretend like they're getting closer and closer but they never arrive at the actual denunciation. I believe it's a rhetorical device to further cast doubt.