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Trump made the right move. I've had enough of the wars and proxy wars. Peace is on the table, they should have taken it. So glad I don't live in the UK right no

by brink 2y ago

Trump made the right move. I've had enough of the wars and proxy wars. Peace is on the table, they should have taken it. So glad I don't live in the UK right now.

4ndrewl 2y ago
The same peace that we got after Crimea was invaded? It's sweet that you've had enough of the wars, like you might have had enough of a Netflix series. The peace on the table is no such thing. It's a temporary appeasement of a murderous dictator who is against everything the US used to stand for. Shameful.
- bigyabai 2y ago
  America did have leverage to negotiate a serious and unprecedented peace, too. They have the weapons to power-gap Russian equipment, a Navy that could crush Russia's fleet in an hour of surface combat, and enough soldiers to deter even a multi-coalition Russian attack. There are a multitude of ways for America to offer support without putting America at risk. Abandoning control in the European theater while doubling down on the Levant is like if the USSR announced they forfeit the Cold War to focus on Afghanistan. It is a bloody warpath, dictated by nonsense. Trading one proxy war for another isn't going to save the American economy, or improve American security.
- brink 2y ago
  What is the alternative you're proposing here? Russia has nukes. Your hubris will lead you to despair and either endless war or at least one nuclear bomb taking out a city. I'm not trying to be "american", I'm trying to be rational.
  - 4ndrewl 2y ago
    Simple, Putin can simply withdraw his troops back to Russia. Instant peace.
    - brink 2y ago
      That's not on the table. Putin will never do that, were tired of Europe and Ukraine pretending like it is.
      - 4ndrewl 2y ago
        What exactly is on the table? Putin will just stop? Don't make me laugh. You know his stated aims right?
        brink 2y ago
        Looks like we'll have to find out who's right.
        bigyabai 2y ago
        Strictly speaking, Ukraine already knows who's wrong. If Russia could be trusted without a security guarantee then the math might add up differently. There will never be another Minsk agreement though, with or without the US at the table. It's pathetic that any credible military leader would attempt to push that a second time.
      - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
        As you state, peace with Putin in not on the table. Your way is to grant him his every ambition, whatever that may be (historically taking territory piece by piece, be it in Georgia or Ukraine). The sanner way is to defeat Putin so that he is forced to stop now, not pause and continue his ambition after he heals some wounds. As you admit, Putin will NEVER not carry out his ambitions.
      - chabes 2y ago
        It could absolutely be on the table. The economy of Russia can only take so much of this war. Putin has little choice now. Trump is pretty much the only reason Russia will be able to keep up their attempted invasion.
  - TomK32 2y ago
    Putin has been pushed back for three years without using nukes. Matter of fact, all countries with nuclear weapons have faces wars and even lost some. The sowiets didn't nuke Afghanistan, the USA didn't nuke Vietnam or <insert long list here>, even Israel didn't nuke Iran desite the 1980 classic by Vince Vance & the Valiants: Bomb Iran. Nukes are useless.
cduzz 2y ago
I'm not sure if "unilateral disarmament" is "peace". Russia's got a long history of mulching their subjects, I'm pretty sure "peace" is the peace of the grave, for many souls currently living in Ukraine. So they're not really heavily incentivized toward peace under the "please dig your own grave" terms on offer.
- lawn 2y ago
  To get a sense for how Russian occupation would be like, we can just look at the areas they've already occupied. Mass graves, torture chambers, and the lowest freedom in the whole world.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
sirolimus 2y ago
Did you listen to what Trump said yesterday? 1. There is no security guarantees. 2. There is no future help if Russia breaks the cease-fire and tries taking Ukraine again. 3. The cease-fire will simply give Russia time to regroup and launch another offensive later. 4. Trump thinks Zelensky is a dictator 5. Zelensky has already offered to step down as president if Trump gave security guarantees.
- nullbyte808 2y ago
  Zelensky is too good to be a politician. He should never step down, especially for Trump.
chabes 2y ago
What a backwards thing to say. Surrender to an oppressor is never peace.
legitster 2y ago
What peace deal? So far nothing has actually been proposed other than marketing spin on Ukraine surrendering.
cheema33 2y ago
> I've had enough of the wars and proxy wars... You have any bright ideas on how to achieve peace that does not involve asking Ukraine to surrender to an invading Russian military and give up the land Russia stole? Also, would you sing the same tune if somebody invades your country?
- orochimaaru 2y ago
  That’s an Ukraine problem. The US should never have made overtures for Ukraine joining nato. There is no “right” for any country to join nato. And Ukraine is not a nato ally. The way it is currently, this is a forever war on low boil that will continue for ever. All the current situation accomplishes is sale of arms to Ukraine. The Europeans manufacture good armaments as well. They are more than accomplished to provide whatever aid Ukraine needs.
  - sirolimus 2y ago
    By that logic the US shouldn't have intervened in Yugoslavia, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, bombing Serbia etc. But I suppose when Gaddafi tries imposing his of own currency on all oil-sales and Yugoslavia threatens becoming the new superpower of the Balkans then it's fine that they intervene lol. You have no idea what you are talking about.
    - orochimaaru 2y ago
      Yes - Iraq was under false pretenses. The US should never have gone to any of those places. Afghanistan was in response to 9/11. The rest is just adventurism that needs curbing.
      - pixxel 2y ago
        [dead]
Frederation 2y ago
Peace isnt on the table. Esp. not from this Orange Turd.
duxup 2y ago
Freedom isn’t free. We support other free nations…. so that we don’t have to fight directly (and alone).
layer8 2y ago
Putin will not stop until he has control over all of Ukraine, by installing a puppet regime similar to Belarus. And then in Moldava as well, if not further. That’s what the Ukraine is fighting to prevent. There is no peace if the Ukrainians don’t retain their freedom. And someone has to guarantee that freedom, against Russia.
kyriakos 2y ago
Someone comes into your house, takes over half the rooms and tells you that they are theirs, for the sake of being a nice person you just let it pass and also tell them they should also decide what you'll be having for dinner from now on. This is the peace that is being aksed for Ukraine to accept.
penguin_booze 2y ago
> So glad I don't live in the UK right now. As are we.

by brink 2y ago

Trump made the right move. I've had enough of the wars and proxy wars. Peace is on the table, they should have taken it. So glad I don't live in the UK right now.

4ndrewl 2y ago

The same peace that we got after Crimea was invaded? It's sweet that you've had enough of the wars, like you might have had enough of a Netflix series. The peace on the table is no such thing. It's a temporary appeasement of a murderous dictator who is against everything the US used to stand for. Shameful.

bigyabai 2y ago
America did have leverage to negotiate a serious and unprecedented peace, too. They have the weapons to power-gap Russian equipment, a Navy that could crush Russia's fleet in an hour of surface combat, and enough soldiers to deter even a multi-coalition Russian attack. There are a multitude of ways for America to offer support without putting America at risk. Abandoning control in the European theater while doubling down on the Levant is like if the USSR announced they forfeit the Cold War to focus on Afghanistan. It is a bloody warpath, dictated by nonsense. Trading one proxy war for another isn't going to save the American economy, or improve American security.
brink 2y ago
What is the alternative you're proposing here? Russia has nukes. Your hubris will lead you to despair and either endless war or at least one nuclear bomb taking out a city. I'm not trying to be "american", I'm trying to be rational.
- 4ndrewl 2y ago
  Simple, Putin can simply withdraw his troops back to Russia. Instant peace.
  - brink 2y ago
    That's not on the table. Putin will never do that, were tired of Europe and Ukraine pretending like it is.
    - 4ndrewl 2y ago
      What exactly is on the table? Putin will just stop? Don't make me laugh. You know his stated aims right?
      - brink 2y ago
        Looks like we'll have to find out who's right.
        bigyabai 2y ago
        Strictly speaking, Ukraine already knows who's wrong. If Russia could be trusted without a security guarantee then the math might add up differently. There will never be another Minsk agreement though, with or without the US at the table. It's pathetic that any credible military leader would attempt to push that a second time.
    - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
      As you state, peace with Putin in not on the table. Your way is to grant him his every ambition, whatever that may be (historically taking territory piece by piece, be it in Georgia or Ukraine). The sanner way is to defeat Putin so that he is forced to stop now, not pause and continue his ambition after he heals some wounds. As you admit, Putin will NEVER not carry out his ambitions.
    - chabes 2y ago
      It could absolutely be on the table. The economy of Russia can only take so much of this war. Putin has little choice now. Trump is pretty much the only reason Russia will be able to keep up their attempted invasion.
- TomK32 2y ago
  Putin has been pushed back for three years without using nukes. Matter of fact, all countries with nuclear weapons have faces wars and even lost some. The sowiets didn't nuke Afghanistan, the USA didn't nuke Vietnam or <insert long list here>, even Israel didn't nuke Iran desite the 1980 classic by Vince Vance & the Valiants: Bomb Iran. Nukes are useless.

cduzz 2y ago

I'm not sure if "unilateral disarmament" is "peace". Russia's got a long history of mulching their subjects, I'm pretty sure "peace" is the peace of the grave, for many souls currently living in Ukraine. So they're not really heavily incentivized toward peace under the "please dig your own grave" terms on offer.

lawn 2y ago
To get a sense for how Russian occupation would be like, we can just look at the areas they've already occupied. Mass graves, torture chambers, and the lowest freedom in the whole world.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

sirolimus 2y ago

Did you listen to what Trump said yesterday? 1. There is no security guarantees. 2. There is no future help if Russia breaks the cease-fire and tries taking Ukraine again. 3. The cease-fire will simply give Russia time to regroup and launch another offensive later. 4. Trump thinks Zelensky is a dictator 5. Zelensky has already offered to step down as president if Trump gave security guarantees.

nullbyte808 2y ago
Zelensky is too good to be a politician. He should never step down, especially for Trump.

chabes 2y ago

What a backwards thing to say. Surrender to an oppressor is never peace.

legitster 2y ago

What peace deal? So far nothing has actually been proposed other than marketing spin on Ukraine surrendering.

cheema33 2y ago

> I've had enough of the wars and proxy wars... You have any bright ideas on how to achieve peace that does not involve asking Ukraine to surrender to an invading Russian military and give up the land Russia stole? Also, would you sing the same tune if somebody invades your country?

orochimaaru 2y ago
That’s an Ukraine problem. The US should never have made overtures for Ukraine joining nato. There is no “right” for any country to join nato. And Ukraine is not a nato ally. The way it is currently, this is a forever war on low boil that will continue for ever. All the current situation accomplishes is sale of arms to Ukraine. The Europeans manufacture good armaments as well. They are more than accomplished to provide whatever aid Ukraine needs.
- sirolimus 2y ago
  By that logic the US shouldn't have intervened in Yugoslavia, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, bombing Serbia etc. But I suppose when Gaddafi tries imposing his of own currency on all oil-sales and Yugoslavia threatens becoming the new superpower of the Balkans then it's fine that they intervene lol. You have no idea what you are talking about.
  - orochimaaru 2y ago
    Yes - Iraq was under false pretenses. The US should never have gone to any of those places. Afghanistan was in response to 9/11. The rest is just adventurism that needs curbing.
    - pixxel 2y ago
      [dead]

Frederation 2y ago

Peace isnt on the table. Esp. not from this Orange Turd.

duxup 2y ago

Freedom isn’t free. We support other free nations…. so that we don’t have to fight directly (and alone).

layer8 2y ago

Putin will not stop until he has control over all of Ukraine, by installing a puppet regime similar to Belarus. And then in Moldava as well, if not further. That’s what the Ukraine is fighting to prevent. There is no peace if the Ukrainians don’t retain their freedom. And someone has to guarantee that freedom, against Russia.

kyriakos 2y ago

Someone comes into your house, takes over half the rooms and tells you that they are theirs, for the sake of being a nice person you just let it pass and also tell them they should also decide what you'll be having for dinner from now on. This is the peace that is being aksed for Ukraine to accept.

penguin_booze 2y ago

> So glad I don't live in the UK right now. As are we.