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I wonder whether EU has the capacity to pull up itself. After all it is not really an EU state. And do ordinary EU people really want that? I mean double the de

I wonder whether EU has the capacity to pull up itself. After all it is not really an EU state. And do ordinary EU people really want that? I mean double the defence budget (or triple in certain cases), double the standing army and etc.

preisschild 2y ago
> I mean double the defence budget (or triple in certain cases), double the standing army and etc. If we would actually do defense at the EU level, we could use that money a lot more efficiently through economies of scale and 2-4% of GDP would probably be enough to defeat russia.
- hdjjhhvvhga 2y ago
  That would make a lot of sense. Also, if done in smart way, a significant part of the budget could be used in the service of the society during peace time.
  - preisschild 2y ago
    I'd be wary of doing that, because that would mean you'd be unprepared if the peace time ends quickly. But if we move some of those "services of the society" to the EU level, we could more efficiently run them (against, through economies of scale) and make them better at the same expanse.
forgot-today 2y ago
WDYM? If alternative is war even closer to home, then doubling or tripling budget is nothing.
sirolimus 2y ago
Peace in Europe benefits everyone—not just the EU, but also the U.S., Asia, and even Russia itself. If we fail to invest in defense, we risk more death and suffering from unchecked Russian expansion and bullying. It’s hard to see where you stand here. You seem unconcerned about Russia taking Ukraine and then the Baltic states, as if that would be a positive outcome. Is the full surrender and merging of Ukraine into Russia something you desire?
- lazyeye 2y ago
  What happens if Ukraine is given sufficient support to start winning and Putin decides to go nuclear? I don't want Russia to win either but we also have to operate in reality.
  - YZF 2y ago
    Is the threat of Russia using nuclear weapons enough to let it take all of Ukraine? Other countries? Russia is not going to use nuclear weapons.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - sirolimus 2y ago
    Even if Ukraine starts winning, a nuclear strike by Putin would trigger a catastrophic response from NATO and the international community, causing mutual destruction. Furthermore, with your logic there is nothing stopping Russia from keep chipping away at Europe because everyone is afraid that Russia will use nuclear weapons. With that rational, you might as well annex the entirety of Europe and call it Russia because Europe wants peace.
    - lazyeye 2y ago
      I'm not necessarily disagreeing but we also need to understand what the reality of nuclear war means in the modern era. https://youtu.be/za6tZB19E4c https://youtu.be/za6tZB19E4c
      - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
        Which is why we can't give in and establish that nuclear powers can do whatever they want. That way just leads to getting closer and closer to nuclear war with every country now having to have their own nukes, not further from the risk of nuclear annihilation.
        2y ago
Frederation 2y ago
Whatever it takes. Thats the sentiment, like it or not..

preisschild 2y ago

> I mean double the defence budget (or triple in certain cases), double the standing army and etc. If we would actually do defense at the EU level, we could use that money a lot more efficiently through economies of scale and 2-4% of GDP would probably be enough to defeat russia.

hdjjhhvvhga 2y ago
That would make a lot of sense. Also, if done in smart way, a significant part of the budget could be used in the service of the society during peace time.
- preisschild 2y ago
  I'd be wary of doing that, because that would mean you'd be unprepared if the peace time ends quickly. But if we move some of those "services of the society" to the EU level, we could more efficiently run them (against, through economies of scale) and make them better at the same expanse.

forgot-today 2y ago

WDYM? If alternative is war even closer to home, then doubling or tripling budget is nothing.

sirolimus 2y ago

Peace in Europe benefits everyone—not just the EU, but also the U.S., Asia, and even Russia itself. If we fail to invest in defense, we risk more death and suffering from unchecked Russian expansion and bullying. It’s hard to see where you stand here. You seem unconcerned about Russia taking Ukraine and then the Baltic states, as if that would be a positive outcome. Is the full surrender and merging of Ukraine into Russia something you desire?

lazyeye 2y ago
What happens if Ukraine is given sufficient support to start winning and Putin decides to go nuclear? I don't want Russia to win either but we also have to operate in reality.
- YZF 2y ago
  Is the threat of Russia using nuclear weapons enough to let it take all of Ukraine? Other countries? Russia is not going to use nuclear weapons.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- sirolimus 2y ago
  Even if Ukraine starts winning, a nuclear strike by Putin would trigger a catastrophic response from NATO and the international community, causing mutual destruction. Furthermore, with your logic there is nothing stopping Russia from keep chipping away at Europe because everyone is afraid that Russia will use nuclear weapons. With that rational, you might as well annex the entirety of Europe and call it Russia because Europe wants peace.
  - lazyeye 2y ago
    I'm not necessarily disagreeing but we also need to understand what the reality of nuclear war means in the modern era. https://youtu.be/za6tZB19E4c https://youtu.be/za6tZB19E4c
    - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
      Which is why we can't give in and establish that nuclear powers can do whatever they want. That way just leads to getting closer and closer to nuclear war with every country now having to have their own nukes, not further from the risk of nuclear annihilation.
      - 2y ago

Frederation 2y ago

Whatever it takes. Thats the sentiment, like it or not..